WFO Producer Chat – Transcript

Deej: All right. Hi folks. October. We don’t have a name for fans of Waiting for October yet. Like we had for Moonbase with Moonbasians. We need to come up with one. Octoberians, monsters. Hey monsters.

Tina: Well, monsters is taken.

Deej: Monsters is taken. For what?

Sarah: I guess that’s true. Lady Gaga.

Deej: Who cares? She doesn’t do a podcast. Actually she might…

Robin: We have cryptids!

Tina: Yeah!

Deej: We’ll try that. And I may leave this whole thing in just so people know that I’m uncertain.

Tina: And then we’ll get suggestions.

Deej: Yeah, Exactly. We’ll do cryptids right now. So anyway, hi cryptids. I’m Deej, creator, co-producer and general problem person of Moonbase. This is wrong, this is the wrong show. It’s not Moonbase.Waiting for October is the show that we are talking about today. And I’ll let the other folks who are sitting in here for our chat introduce themselves as well. Somebody talk.

Robin: Hi, I’m Robin and I voice Karo.

Deej: And what else?

Robin: Ooh, I will be a co-producer as well.

Deej: As of about five minutes ago.

Robin: Exactly.

Deej: Robin is now a co-producer on the show with the rest of us so this really is a producer chat.

Robin: Ooh, yes. Sarah, Tina.

Sarah: I’m Sarah Müller and I am one of the other co-producers of the show.

Deej: And the voice of the bus driver.

Sarah: Yeah! My voice acting debut.

Tina: It was so good. And my name is Tina. I am a co-producer on the show. And I also voice Yvonne. And Deej don’t you do a voice?

Deej: No.

Tina: No, no, not at all. Not that amazingly voice acted character.

Deej: Well, I’m sure we’ll talk about that later. So hi folks. This is our official end of season one producer chat for Waiting for October. And I have a bunch of random questions. Some of them I came up with myself because I didn’t think anyone was going to send any. Some of them other people actually did send in once I started poking them.

And I’ve tried to sort of just arrange them in a way that makes sense. So I’m not going to be like, necessarily reading everyone’s questions at the same time or anything like that. But thank you very much everyone who responded, everyone who sent us questions, and everyone who has listened to the show because of course without that we wouldn’t be doing anything at all.

So let’s start out by talking sort of some of the big generalities of the show and how the show started and changed. Because we originally started this about four years ago now. When I wrote the original pilot script, I didn’t know for sure it would be a pilot script at the time for our anthology series, Monkey Tales. But at the same time, I like didn’t not know either. Like I did write it hoping that it might become something bigger.

But I also just sort of like at the time just wanted to write something cute and monstery and Halloweeny and put that together and we recorded it, that episode is still out there if you want to listen to it, it is a lot different.

Tina: Yeah.

Deej: In some certain ways, which Tina, I know this is going to be more starting out with like you and I because both Sarah and Robin weren’t really part of that.

Tina: Mmhmm.

Deej: But let’s start out with that very beginning. How do you feel things changed between that original pilots that we did? And basically, even when I started talking to you about doing the full series, how things had changed.

Tina: Oh my gosh. It definitely, I just I love the fact that you’re like, this is this little thing. We’re just going to try it. It may or may not turn into something and because we were still finishing Moonbase and going through all of that.

I feel like the bones of it are the same, I think. Um, I don’t know how much, I’m trying to think of what all would be a spoiler. I know that there’s some directions that we talked like not endgame necessarily, but like where the show was going to go and like the arcs that it was going to take that when we got into actually doing the show. And I don’t know if it was actually writing the characters past the pilot that you had kind of changed course on a couple things.

You can always edit it out. The thing with like the council or whatever you were like, that’s going to be a thing. And then we’re like, OK, maybe not. And then what were they they were going to start dating by the end of season one? Kara and Yvonne were like the whole premise.

Deej: They were dating the whole time, but it was originally going to be going to be more, more around um There wasn’t going to be as much drama originally. Like this was very much supposed to be like and nobody believed me even then when I said it. But this was very much this was very much supposed to be like the a lighter show than Moon base.

Tina: Because it was like a fake scavenger hunt, like a fake quest, right?

Deej: Yeah, like the whole the whole season was supposed to be just all of these sort of like lighter adventures that was going to end in. Karo proposing to Yvonne.

Tina: Proposing, that’s it.

Deej:That was the whole reason that they were sort of like taking all of these adventures was to sort of wind things up. And so obviously they are nowhere near that point in their relationship.

Tina: Quick clarification. This is coming out post finale, right?

Deej:Yeah. Yeah, this will come out.

Tina: So why did you make it more sad? We could have had a proposal!

Deej: That was probably the biggest thing was that it became much more centered. And that was what I was going to say too, is that I feel like the pilot, even though it was like. The same basic scene like as in season one, episode one, like it was like the date and the pumpkin patch and everything. It was really more in the original version focused on like meeting the monsters and explore and explore the world and everything. And then it already had become like even by like when we first started talking about it as a full series in my head, at least it become a lot more about their relationship than oh, just hey, this is cool monsters. And so I feel like the emotional arc had already changed a lot.

Tina: And then we had a prequel for, I guess, a prequel or prologue for the actual series and we got into it. So while people weren’t like super attached already, they had already met Karo and Yvonne and they kind of had a little bit of this is how they are. And oh, now we’re in the world. So it wasn’t such a cold open.

Deej: Yeah, exactly. So which was part of the reason why we did the prologue was to set up some of the stuff without having to do it all during that first date ever we want to call it.

Tina: And they felt different too, even just like the acting and like they were both good. Like I really enjoyed acting in the pilot and I enjoyed acting in this one obviously and it just I liked that they kind of felt like their own thing. So it didn’t necessarily feel like we were riding over somebody. It was, okay, we’re just redoing it.

Deej:Yeah, I mean…

Tina: It wasn’t a weird recasting.

Deej: Yeah. And there was a lot of stuff that I hadn’t decided yet that we hadn’t talked about yet at that point too, because again, we were just like, okay, this is kind of a fun one off scene. And part of what I wanted to do when I started a new show was to set things up and do a lot more world building than I did with Moonbase because with Moonbase I was like, okay, we’re going to do 20 quick mini episodes and it’ll be done.

And that’s definitely what happened. But, but so for this one I want I was like, okay, I want to have like all of the major like decisions made. I want to know what would happen in two years or three years if we keep going. I want to know like the end game for my main characters. So I have that in my head and I’m working towards it the whole time and everything. So we talked a lot about that kind of stuff beforehand too. And I think that goes some of that like gets into the acting, because we talked a lot about the back a lot more about the backgrounds of the characters beforehand too. And I think that Robin this is when you can definitely jump into I think that changed Karo a lot from the portrayal in the original Monkeytales version, because we know Karo has gone through all this shit that we didn’t really know about beforehand. And I feel like that deepens it and that makes the like trepidation of bringing Yvonne over and everything a lot different.

Robin: I definitely think so I will say though I haven’t listened to the original. Solely because I didn’t, I didn’t want to do, I didn’t want to copy the performance or be influenced by it in any way. But I would definitely say yeah you provided a lot of insight into Karo that really helped, at least me. I mean we’ve even talked before about like similarities between Karo and myself, just very weird coincidences.

So I think that definitely helped to unintentional method acting. But yeah, I think yeah, but just I remember you even saying in the in I think one of our first meetups that there was going to be a proposal. And then you sent us the scripts and I was like this is not this is not how this is going to end cool cool cool cool. So I love that that’s a plot twist too for us.

Deej: And you’re obviously both so happy about that.

Robin: I know we’re thrilled. I will say I don’t know yeah absolutely I think. But I would even say like going back to the prologue that it really helped kind of establish where Karo is that insecurity, the hesitancy but the excitement. They’re really. It’s, I don’t know I just love that they’re they kind of fluctuate between. I can’t wait to show you and I’m afraid to show you. So, I don’t know. I think there’s just been a lot of I don’t know maybe I should now that you know we’re a season in. I guess I could go back and listen and see how it’s evolved.

Deej: Not that you’d ever have to record that particular script again.

Robin: Exactly.

Tina: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Deej: Yeah, no I think that makes sense and I think that it sort of touches on something I was trying to articulate back there too which is the idea that the monsters are important the monster world is important, but it became less about like telling monster stories.

And more about telling the story that wanted or needed that as a background. Because Tina talked about this too and maybe I’ll let Tina actually talk about it instead of just voting her.

Tina: No

Deej: But when we were talking beforehand. Like a week or two ago, you were talking about the fact that when we had our initial discussions you felt like it was going to be a lot more about like the monsters and the like sort of metaphors that the monsters were standing in for that the reasons why we tell monster stories and it didn’t actually become like that so much in the first season.

Tina: Yeah, like so many of our conversations at the very beginning and I can’t speak for like the conversations that you and Sarah had but I remember so much when you were like. Like it would be God, what was it the show was like an allegory for otherness kind of? and the way that if you’re different like if you’re queer or trans or just not the stereotypical like cis white male or you know that you get sort of treated differently and that was in my head for so long and then we started making the show and I’m like. I keep telling I was telling that to people and I’m like but that’s not on our website and that’s kind of not like I mean it is but that’s not really. So it was interesting to kind of like the point didn’t shift necessarily because I think that’s still there and like the nature of the show. But it just seemed like it evolved into more than that.

Deej: Yeah, I still think I hope it’s important for the world building.

Tina: No, yeah, I know for sure.

Deej: But I do feel like it’s more sort of like the background of the story now than I expected, not necessarily that I expected I just feel like I was selling it more on that to you guys at the beginning and then. Made it all about the sadness.

Tina: Again. Just feelings jail again. Like first in Moonbase you had Roger and Alex and now have Karo and Yvonne and just…

Deej: Yeah, but I do think we’re going to explore more of that. I think there are places in season one that comes up like I think about Auncle Lantern’s monologue. As a place where I think it still gets deep into that. And a few other things too there’s sort of like sort of parts that were like that. And I think it still exists as a background. I think some of like the lindworm stuff is like that too where they’re talking about the wildness in this world. There are things in there that like this world is still very much based in like how our world sees the other and how our world describes them, but it’s not necessarily like what the action of the story is about. So that definitely changed.

Sarah: I think also for me, like as someone who is still new to all of this, like it’s been really cool to see how it changes based on everything going on like in the real world. Like I think the message that you’ve brought in this first season feels very needed with everything going on in the last year and such.

Deej: Yeah, that’s a good point too. Like it’s definitely been changing. Like even as over the time that I wrote it because I wrote it from what like last late summer, I think I started putting scripts together late summer early fall. No wait a second it has to be earlier than that, we started broadcasting episodes…. But anyway, like before certain elections happened and certain things went further and further off the tracks.

Tina: The rails.

Deej: Yeah, it’s off the rails. That definitely has changed things. As I’m starting to think about how things are going to happen from here the way the world is right now is definitely changing some of my ideas and some of my thoughts. Not that I can tell you that yet.

Tina: Sure you can. This is fine. It’s just the four of us. No one else is listening.

Robin: Exactly.

Deej: But yeah, so I think it keeps changing and I think that it keeps changing not just because of me because I feel like, and I tried to do this with all the characters, I tried to make time with every actor to spend time talking about the character and what they felt connected to and how we wanted it to grow. But particularly we had some long talks about Karo and Yvonne and how they exist in this world and how they, how I expected they were going to change. And you were, both of your thoughts on that like had some huge impacts. I know I’m not asking you to tell details, but both of you did find things in the story that like really connected with you personally as well and I feel like that changed things as we kept going and as you sort of like talk to me about that.

Robin: I think Tina and I actually went into detail about that during our cute little video chat.

Deej: Oh yeah, your Patreon…

Robin: Kind of divulged a little bit. I mean, I don’t think it was a heavy detail.

Tina: I’m not a video editor, but I am doing my best to do transcripts on there because for some reason I thought that was a good idea. I mean, it is, but it wasn’t. But yeah, I’m down.

Tina: I can just talk a little bit real quick.

Deej: If you want to, I didn’t want to pull it out of you, but if you want to.

Tina: No, God, no, I will talk to a brick wall. So actually, Whitney, who plays Charlene, we had gone out for coffee and we’re talking and stuff and she’s like, so, um, did you read all the scripts yet? Like, I mean, I skimmed them. I read like the first couple. She’s like, oh, you might want to read the scripts. I just I’m like, what? Okay. She’s like, I just… just read them. Make sure, make sure you’re not going to like be triggered or anything. And I’m like, what in the world?What are you talking about? And so I’m, you know, she tells me a little bit, but I go and I read these scripts and the plot points like with Yvonne and her grandma and all of that. Um, oh, it’s weird to think that I’m talking to people that don’t know, I’m used to like it being the focal point of my life.

Back in 2000, my mom had a stroke and she was in a wheelchair. She could move the left side of her body. She couldn’t move the right side and she had a pretty severe speech impediment. She had aphasia and some words would come out right. All of the colorful words when she was mad? Perfect. But just normal speech was really difficult. So for a while, like we had someone that took care of her and just as the years went on, like we would, we, my sister and I took care of her outside of like the nine to five. But at a certain point, like I ended up, we lost the lady that was taking care of her so I became her nine to five caretaker. And a lot of the stuff about like being the side character in somebody else’s story and not being able to really get out and all of that survivors guilt. I mean, you could have had like a private camera like in my house, like it was dead on and I’m reading this going, how in the absolute fuck did they do that? Like insane.

And I’m just like, hmm, we’re going to have to sit with this a little bit and like it was good and it wasn’t bad. And she had passed away. We were recording Moonbase Theta because I was a little behind on my recording, which will, I’m sure, shock everybody. But there was the episode, I think it’s when Wilder thinks she’s stuck when she’s working on the solar panels.

Deej: Yeah.

Tina: And she’s recording the message like to her wives and she’s crying and all that stuff. And that was like right after. And so I had a take that it was pretty good. But I was like, that’s not very good. I’m going to try it again. And at that point in time, literally everything in the world was making me cry. So like completely lost it. And then I was just like, you know what, what the fuck, I’m just going to send it. It’s fine, whatever. And I’m pretty sure that you used most of that take. So when we did this, I was expecting kind of the same thing to happen. But I feel like since it had been enough separated, like I didn’t.And I was very thankful for that because it was just, it was going to be real interesting to see how it was going to go. But I don’t know if you have any experience in that area, but like you wrote that so well and so accurate. Like it’s, I hope that you haven’t had to deal with a whole lot of that, but it came across perfect.

Deej: Yeah, it was like none of most of that wasn’t like based on anything that I had actually experienced either. And I certainly didn’t like intend to put that on you. I wasn’t really thinking of it like connected to that. Like, I mean, I knew about your mother, I knew your mother a little bit like from like Facebook comments and stuff back and forth. But like, I didn’t know that much about the behind the scenes of it.And I certainly wouldn’t, I don’t know if I would have written it that way if I had known. So maybe it’s just as well, but…

Tina: Right?

Deej: I was just thinking of Yvonne as being in a scenario where she had been sort of felt trapped like that and hadn’t gotten out as much.Maybe just the sort of like even more of a contrast to Karo who not only was from a whole other universe, but had like gotten all around in ours as well.

Tina: And I mean, it works because it’s so complicated to because you do get finally get that chance to go out and like because for months afterwards, we were still like habitually like checking our phones or we’re like, we can’t all go out. Who’s going to stay at the house or we went to Oklahoma City one time and we’re like, this isn’t right. We can only, you know, this is too far to go because if she calls and we can’t get home and it was just like, oh, right. So it was kind of real easy to think about a lot of the underlying like conflict, the stuff with like her finally trying to figure out, OK, what am I doing if I’m not taking care of somebody else and now I’m going to go support somebody else again? Like, how does this work?

Deej: But it all did.

Tina: Yes.

Deej: Robin, did you want to say anything about your connection with Karo?

Robin: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. So there’s the episode where they go back to the school with Grey and Grey’s lively about it and Karo is muted and a little shut down. And I actually went to a boarding school and my otherness was, I wasn’t the rich kid whose parents could afford to go there, but I was like the maintenance man’s kid.

Deej: Yeah.

Robin: So it was just very interesting to just the timing of it. I had recently been visiting my dad out at that school because he still works there. And what was that? Because we had rearranged the recording schedule to accommodate my trip. So I think two days after I got back, we were recording that episode and the upset, It was so strange even just describing it. It obviously it’s not identical to Kara’s school, but I was picturing this little shack behind the bleachers by the football field. And it was so weird to put myself, I could physically picture a place to take me back to that feeling of otherness. So it was just very interesting. Just yeah, just the timing of that recording and I didn’t put it together until I was literally turning on my computer. I think I had just started the call with you Deej, and opened the script that I had already read and it hit me what I was about to be talking about and like the interaction we were about to have. It was just wild. In that episode, I think we recorded twice.

Deej: Yeah, because Dallas…

Robin: Yeah and so that was really, that was really fun to do because I feel like the second recording was on point. But yeah, I know it was just weird the symmetry of Karo’s upbringing and mine in that regard. It was always really fascinating to me.

Deej:And that was actually that was something that was a little more from my experience too because I grew up, most of my years of school going to like private Christian schools.

Robin: Yeah I remember us talking about that.

Deej: Yeah. And in fact, the geography of their school like was in my head like thinking about the like first Baptist school that I went to. And like the hill that was back behind it and there was this little store we used to sneak away to to buy candy and stuff. And so all of that stuff was in my head while I was writing that but it was definitely coming out of the same experience to where I was becoming over the course of growing up becoming like sort of the rebel of that school. And eventually like went back to public school for my senior year to like graduate and stuff. But just slowly sort of coming out of that really repressed and really sort of like pushed down background. So that came a lot out of me as well.

There are always so many like weird little things that like come out of my own life and ways that I don’t expect to. So.

Robin: That’s just being a writer though.

Deej: Well it is yeah but I think too that I was trying to without. I think that was tied up more in like that was another sort of like an artifact of when I thought it was being more specifically about the council which it may still like I do still expect them to come back in later on. Not again to give things away but thinking about like the council run school I was starting to think about the ways that like religion and school in like schooling have like been used for the same purpose over generations and generations to like specifically like push down folks who were marginalized in any way.

Robin: Mold, almost.

Deej: So that definitely came into a lot as well. Okay, let’s….

Tina: Got real heavy.

Deej: Yeah, let’s lighten things up a little bit. We sort of talked about this already just to see if there’s anything that you guys want to add. We had one of our listener questions was, how has making this show been different from making Moonbase? Because both of you acted in Moonbase as well. Were there any changes or adjustments you had to make? Tina I know you’ve talked about having to like try to eliminate Wilder.

Tina: Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah, no the ghost, the ghost scene. Wilder just kept coming out like,I have kind of the accent just very soft and Wilder made it worse and or better I don’t know, depends on your definition and I just there. What was it like I heard it like in the take and you were just like that’s not I’m like yeah, nope that’s not that’s not at all. But it is just it’s nice to record with everybody because we don’t have to guess like that was what stressed me out about Moonbase because that was one of my first recording things. And I would get the thing and I’m like I’m going to record it. But what if it’s the exact opposite of what the other person does like I can’t hear what they’re doing what if I give this energy and then they’re giving this energy and then I’m not. All the anxiety right and because Robin and I have talked about that a little bit like there was a scene that the one we recorded is it small, Smalltown where we hung out with Grey.?

Deej: Yeah.

Tina: The one that yes that we were we recorded it twice because we had there was another actor that was around Dallas couldn’t be there and so we did the thing and then we’re like OK well we’ll come back and we’ll read it with Dallas and their performance was completely different. And it was great and it was just like oh I thought I knew how I was going to do this and if we had recorded it on our own. Mine for sure would have been the first take that we did. But having that to balance off of like 100 percent of different performance.

Deej: Yeah.

Tina: And the recording all together.

Deej: Dallas just like, Dallas just like completely transforms a character when he steps into it just every time and so.

Tina: It was so good because I didn’t think about like the whole like hyped up bestie frenemy type of energy. And then that’s what he did and I’m just like well shit okay. And it’s also really nice not to bug people about emailing us their files because I was like these people are going to hate me because that’s the only time I ever talked. That’s the only time I ever talked to anybody was like, hi I hope you’re doing well! Can you send me this thing that was due? Okay, bye!

Deej: Yeah. And yeah it became impossible to even contemplate for Moonbase and I was very like deliberate writing this show so that I wouldn’t like necessarily expand it in the same way. But it makes such a huge difference to be able to get even most of the people in the same recording space.

Robin: Absolutely. I had a smaller group I interacted with that… OK English I swear I’m not trying to make a living talking apparently. Right.

Tina: Words are hard.

Robin: They had a very small group that they interacted with. So I would say that hands down the biggest change has been the recording.I remember when you said we were going to be doing group recording. I was so excited to do that because it’s just an energy shift. I mean it can just absolutely transform a performance to play off of a fellow actor. So that’s I would say has been the highlight hands down.

Deej: And I mean you two get to be basically in scenes with everybody.

Robin: Mmhmm

Tina: It’s so nice, I love it.

Robin: It’s really cool.

Tina: There’s people I never acted with.

Deej: Yeah. Well a lot of people in Moonbase said that, was that they were like oh it’s so cool. I’ve been a show with like Tau or I’m in a show with like David Dear or something like that but I don’t get to do any scenes with them. And I’m like, well that kind of happens. But at least like you guys get to be in everything.

Tina: Yeah, yeah, no complaints. It’s fun.

Deej: Another question sort of like related still looking at sort of like big picture production things. Have there been any surprises throughout the making of the show so far? And we talked a little bit of some of these things but like the writing, the production, whatever. Anything that you were really surprised about like how it changed, how it happened when we actually got into it.

Tina: Yes but I’ve been talking too much so if anybody else has one y’all can go first because I tend to do that.

Sarah: I think for me…

Robin: Yeah. No go for it please.

Deej: I was going to say I think for me like everything’s been a surprise because I was a big fan of Moonbase. And when Deej asked me if I wanted to be a co-producer I’m like, sure I don’t know what I’m doing but this will be fun! And even though I haven’t been there for most of the rehearsals because of my work schedule, it’s just been really cool to see the behind the scenes process and how everything happens and how it really takes all of us. Like not just the crew but the cast as well to get everything out there. And that’s just been like a cool thing to learn and also be really surprised about as well.

Deej: Yeah it’s one of the nice things too about having the group recording sessions and stuff is this show feels a lot more collaborative than Moonbase was able to. I mean I tried but I mean I think that because I didn’t go into it expecting things to grow the way they did and I was just sort of the entire like last couple of seasons. It was like riding up like bucking the old Bronco you’re just sort of like trying to hold on to the end of the ride. And I think we all felt like that I think that Cass definitely felt like that that’s why he didn’t want to do another show. To be fair Cass did obviously want to do another show because he is acting with us and like still producing the Moonbase like sort of stories we’re doing right now but Cass was very sincerely like regretfully turned me down when I asked him if he wanted to co-produce for this one.

Tina: I love you but no absolutely not.

Deej: That was a surprise. I talked a little bit about the changes in the writing so I don’t really think that necessarily is a big thing but definitely one of the things I tried to do was have all the writing done before we started production this time which I wasn’t able to do the last couple of seasons of Moonbase and I feel like it was again, just sort of like too much feeling like I was playing catch up all the time. So that was kind of a big thing for me.

Tina: Robin, do you want to go ahead and go?

Robin: I just think yeah, it was just interesting being on. I had a smaller role for Moonbase so it was really fun being a part of like the earlier meetings and hearing the evolution of the story and just when we got the scripts, just how things change. I remember we did a lot of early just like read throughs with just me and Tina but even when we got the finalized scripts even those changed. So it was just really fun to kind of be a part of that even in such a microscopic way where I was definitely just an observer and just, you just tell me where I need to do, what I need to say, and I’m good. But it was really fun seeing that evolution of you know, this is what we’d like to do and then this is what we are going to do.

Tina: I feel like the process didn’t terribly surprise me but I and I’re going to be a little bit of a wet blanket, I am surprised like I know I gave you grief earlier about changing the ending and having it like it didn’t end bad, but it ended very realistically. And I think we’re used to mainstream television and stories you’ve got like the queer relationships that end badly. And then in audio drama you tend to, everybody goes through you know hell and back because that’s what we do in audio drama but then you get like the queer joy and then the happy endings.

And I feel like this was just, you know as someone who’s gone through like a divorce and who’s talked to people like they’ve been into and kind of had to make the yes we both want to do this but this might not be a good idea because A B and C so let’s make the maybe smart decision and not? Like it was very interesting and very surprising that you made that call and sort of had them like, yes they stay together. But kind of not really and they were like, we’re going to do this and do our own separate things, which like I’m reading the script going, Hmm I know that they’re happy about this but how the ever loving blazes is that going to work like in a long term relationship with them living in two different fucking worlds?! But and I’m not saying like I disagree with you and I don’t think it should have been done that way but I was very very surprised because I feel like and I don’t know if that one has aired yet so I don’t know but I feel like when people listen to it and they get there they’re going to have strong opinions about it. But I think it’s going to be more interesting to explore and give us more options and I just, I don’t feel like people don’t do that.

Deej: Well again like this is going out after the end of the season so like you don’t have to hide anything. Like when we were talking about it I don’t think you said it during when we were actually recording but we were talking about that episode the final episode afterwards and you like came out and said that you didn’t think it was a good idea for them like not in large part but for them as a couple to make the decisions…

Tina:  Yeah I don’t I mean it’s the best that they could do in the situation like as people I think that it’s going to last. How do you maintain? Because like in the short term 100% but like long term somebody’s going to have to make a decision that they don’t like. Either that or they’re going to have to completely change their opinion on something but where they are right now and like the people they are right now like neither one of them is going to be happy. It’s the same problem they’re just delaying the inevitable and I guess that’s angst in its own way but I just, it’s an interesting choice. I’m glad you did it. I am very surprised that that’s what you did.

Deej: Well…
Tina: Do you know what’s going to happen? Do you have a game plan? Do you know where they’re going to go? I’m not saying tell me like I mean…

Deej: We can talk a little bit after we stop recording if we want. I wanted to tell you about the mini series anyway and I can give you a few things about season two as well but I have like been making big decisions for the last few weeks trying to get ready to start writing which I should have done by now I haven’t done yet. But yeah like that’s definitely changed how I saw things going as well, not that I think that they’re necessarily not going to make it I haven’t made that decision. But just that I wasn’t expecting any of this to be quite as rocky as well. I mean we talked about that, that I didn’t expect this stuff to get rocky but I think that what really winds up being important to me in writing a story of any sort is that it makes sense that you listen to and you say yeah those are the choices that they make, that they would have made. That it’s not something that you’re like oh they wouldn’t have said that, they wouldn’t have done that. And so I really feel like in the situation they’re in it was this or they had to like completely walk away.

Robin: But there’s also, because obviously this takes place in a universe where you know multiple worlds and universes kind of a deal. It’s very grounding because it’s such a real experience too and I feel that it’s pretty, I think it’s pretty apparent that there is a deep love between these two and that but there’s also with this decision there’s a self love as well you know both choosing to grow as individuals and realizing that, like that little monologue that… I guess yeah you said this is going to be out afterwards that Karo has about, you know Yvonne says tell me a story ,tell me what tell me what we’re going to do. And it’s very emotional for Karo until she gets excited, until they get excited about it and then I don’t know there’s just something really grounding about the “separation.” I put heavy quotes around that because there’s a growth involved with it too, they need it for their own selves. But yeah no I am on the same page with Tina with how the fuck is this going to work. Especially I mean long distance is genuinely a thing but at the same time we’re talking about worlds here. Multiple. Very curious how this is going to work but I’m also rooting for them.

Tina: Yeah this has made me realize how much I knew I didn’t love it but I just sitting here while everybody’s talking. I vehemently hate like the stories a lot of them are Hallmark Christmas stories where somebody like just drops everything they don’t have their passion anymore, they don’t do anything, and it’s all like cool I’ll just give it all up to be in this relationship. I mean…

Robin: The sacrifice.

Tina: What are you doing? And it’s valid if that’s like what you really really really want but it’s like why is that always the go to? Like there should maybe be a way to do both or I don’t know, I’m just like what then? What happens if the relationship ends or what happens if you get resentful because you didn’t do this thing that you wanted to do? Now you have nothing because your relationship is over and so is this and just , a vehement. Oh I very much don’t like it so thank you.

Robin: People evolve so like you can change your mind or an event can happen that not necessarily forces you to change your mind but helps you grow to realize this is the direction I’m meant to be in. So I’m very curious to see the direction that these characters are going to be pulled in. But yeah I have a lot of concerns.

Deej: That is fair. I think we all sort of had our separate answers to that question. Let me skip down here because a couple people had asked things about recording sessions which I feel like we sort of covered pretty well at this point. Okay, some little bit lighter things. Who is your favorite monster in October right now? Everybody should be able to answer this and it should definitely be The Endling.

Robin: Or my job? Yes, The Endling is my favorite. Actually to be honest I think because I hate him but I also love that I hate him, the Raven. That episode Karo has their little micro adventure to The Endling. So I always listen to any time an episode launches, I always listen to it when I’m at work. I have a particular day where I don’t have to deal with customers for, oh that sounds terrible the way I phrase that. I don’t have to interact with customers for the first few hours so I’ll listen to podcasts or music. And I was giggling like an insane person through the whole thing. Because we always have that character we love to hate and I think the Raven is mine.

Deej: It was funny because I think that I think it surprised a lot of people. A lot of our like regular listeners after Moonbase when he jumped into that because it’s so different and it’s so like even Roger at his most like manic when he’s stuck alone is never like enjoying it quite as much as the Raven enjoys being an asshole all the time. But knowing Lehman as well as I do and having worked with him on so many different things I of course knew he was gonna be able to jump right into that.

Robin: It’s so beautifully done. I love it so much.

Deej: And we still don’t know like anything about who the Raven actually is. Despite having like a full monologue of his own and being in like two big episodes besides that this season.

Robin: But I genuinely enjoy the mystery of that because of course Karo is still very much a mystery. The Raven’s a mystery. I like all these breadcrumbs. Where the fuck are they going?

Deej: Sarah, favorite monster?

Sarah: Ooh I’m really partial to Grey. I just love like the energy Dallas brings to it. And I also really like Alan-a-Dale. I think when we were going through auditions and getting to hear everyone’s portrayal of him that was very fun for me. That was one of my favorite moments. And I think I just like him a lot. But maybe those are my two but I love all the monsters. Even Raven.

Deej: Alan is definitely gonna be coming back eventually. I don’t know if it’ll be in next season or not but he’s definitely coming back eventually because I told Trace, I said you hold on to your story. I’m gonna be on your horses because we are gonna do a musical episode eventually.

Sarah: Please!

Robin: You heard it here.

Tina: Is this the first time you’ve said it publicly?

Deej: This is probably the first time I’ve said it publicly.

Robin: Oh my god! Okay.

Deej: Again like I said I don’t know for sure when it’ll happen but I know we’re gonna do one eventually and Trace is on board.

Tina: Dun dun dun

Deej: And we couldn’t do it without Alan.

Tina: God no.

Robin: Oh no.

Tina: The one canonical musician on the show right now.

Deej: Yeah. Tina, monster?

Tina: I feel like if we’re gonna go like acting wise and like to have scenes with the stuff, Dallas as Grey 100% that’s so much fun. I’m so excited to see where their dynamic goes. But also I kind of like the billdad. It’s real cute.

Deej: That’s because you get your little moments with them.

Tina: I know. I know. And I have to like yeah I had to listen to it to get it because you know you wouldn’t make billdad while we were recording. I mean I didn’t ask but besides the point.

Deej: I didn’t know yet, that was Karo. Yeah. That was fun too. That was yeah I was gonna say that was an interesting parallel as well with the show because not only like we’re talking all the time about the character Karo and our sound designer Caro but our sound designer Caro’s name is Caroline Elizabeth.

Robin: Stop.

Deej: Yeah.

Robin: I don’t know that.

Deej: Yeah. And again and again, I didn’t know that either.

Robin: That’s amazing. Okay that’s fantastic.

Deej: Yeah.

Robin: That’s my favorite bit of trivia about this.

Deej: They were like okay this is a little spooky, I’m like I didn’t know! I didn’t I didn’t know their middle name. I knew their first name was Caro of course. Oh did I say mine? I think mine is probably the Lindworm.Just because of the poetry as much as anything. Like it’s the only place I really have been able to fit in poetry in this one other than like you doing the like little singing things.

Tina: The Emily Dickinson stuff?

Deej: Yeah. So I’m interested in seeing where the Lindworm comes in. Like right now I’ll tell you another behind the scenes secret. Well no that’s not true. I was gonna say that I don’t know where the Lindworm fits into the second season but then I remembered that I do so. So you will be so you will be seeing the Lindworm again which you had to anyway because it’s Tau and Tau is one of my favorite people in the world so.

If you were from October, and this comes completely outside of your characters, if you were from October what kind of monster would you be? So not your character what would you be?

Robin: Oh shit.

Tina: I like the. What is ah shoot what’s her name, Rissa’s character?

Deej: Oh yeah the tree.

Tina: Yeah. We’re just going to go with that. I feel like that’s what I would do.I don’t…. yeah. I’m like well that one might be that, maybe that one maybe…. but yeah we’re going to go with that one because I can’t make out my mind.

Deej: She’s definitely going to be in next season as well because she is an important part of my world. building. It’s nice to have a character who is literally studying how the world is put together.

Tina: Yeah, right?

Deej: When you want to throw in extra bits of world building here and there.

Tina: How mad is she going to be when we finally show up again?

Deej: Sarah, monster, what would you be?

Sarah: Honestly, a skeleton, I just feel like it fits my personality. And I like to imagine, for those that don’t know, I’m a librarian. So I like to imagine like a little skeleton, just like carrying all these books. It just feels very fitting for me.

Deej: And I mean, I guess it’s kind of obvious for me. So I don’t really need to answer this one. I did write a character entirely for me to be me.

Tina: Didn’t you say outside of your character though?

Robin: Oooooh

Deej: Well, yeah, but that’s what I’m saying though, is that I don’t think there’s, if I had to pick one outside of The Endling, probably, I don’t know, I like Karim. I like the werebear. I’d probably be that.

Tina: I fully expected you to say the Lindworm.

Deej: No, I couldn’t be the Lindworm. Lindworm is too haughty. I could never be, never pull that off.

Tina: That’s… same.

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Deej: Okay. Keeping on going down through the questions we had. For Tina and Robin, we sort of covered this too, but just to have, give you, have this little mutual admiration society jump out again. For Tina and Robin, your characters didn’t interact in MTO. How has it been working together on this show?

Tina: We get in trouble.

Deej: You get in trouble.

Tina: We get yelled at.

Robin: 100 percent.

Tina: And I don’t know why Deej and Sarah still work with us.

Deej: There might be a reason why I put you two in different worlds at the end of the season.

Tina: And yet you bring her on as another producer! You are compounding your problems.

Robin: Honestly, truly.I think that was probably why I was so shocked when you asked me before we started doing this. Cause I was like, oh, uh, yes. Wait. Yes. I was like, okay, cool. Honestly, for me, it was super exciting. I think I’ve said this before in one of the interview things that she and I did. I was so stoked when I realized Tina was Wilder. I’m super bad with names. I’m horrendous with them. So when I realized as we were, I was doing, um…

Tina: The callback, right?

Robin: I don’t know. I call it… yeah it’s a callback, but it was definitely like, felt like a chemistry read to see how we played off of each other. Um, partway through it, I realized you were Wilder and I thought I really fucked up the audition when I paused for too long going, oh my god, this is Wilder. And it wasn’t an accent or anything it’s just like the cadence of your speech. But I was super stoked cause Wilder is one of my favorite characters. So I’ve been very excited and we hit it off really well. I initiated like a hangout just to get to know Tina a little bit, before we started recording after I was cast and we just sat and chatted for a couple hours. It was great. And then we got along pretty well it felt like. So once we started recording, it was just lots of laughing and, you know, getting in trouble.

Tina: Yea, I feel like I expected you to be a lot more serious and I don’t know why. I think maybe just a little bit like I had known about the character or whatever. Then I’m like, this is fine. This is fine.

Robin: Exactly.I think though, um, Ahnung though was very a grounded character. So if you’re kind of only kind of like it’s kind of habitual just in human nature to be like, oh, this character is like this so you just kind of assume the actor might be as well. No, I’m unhinged. I’’m a little weird.

Tina: Yeah. It just, I think that it doesn’t apply to Moonbase because like, I mean, I guess it would have for like Roger and Alex, but Wilder didn’t really have like a one-on-one like person like she had her wives that she sent messages to and Nessa, but there was not really any dialogue heavy scenes like early on. And then there were intermittent ones, like as we moved to like the full cast, but it was just kind of written in such a way that I mean, even if we had recorded, you know, synchronously, like at the same time, like I still feel like it wouldn’t quite have been the same situation, but recording so much with like one other person, it’s just, it’s different and it’s fun. And it, you’re able to kind of build relationship wise, I think. And it’s just an entirely different experience for better or for worse.

Robin: Really fun too, recording with you instead of just reading a script and then just assuming this is how you’ll read it is just that play that we have has really, it’s just, it’s fun hearing and watching and going through the growth of it. I really have enjoyed it.

Deej: Yeah. I remember when we were doing the recording sessions for the series finale for Moonbase, just working so hard to try to get like Roger and Alex to get the actors in a session together because I wanted that so badly, like the whole series, we didn’t get to hear them together and just like begging them to make time so I can get them both in room just so I could hear that once. And it’s just so nice to be able to have that with you two all the time.

Okay, this question, even though I’m specifically name checked in it, I’m not going to answer, but I’ll give it to three three of you. Any head cannons or actual Canon D, as they said, which is why I’m not answering it, about the world of October that aren’t really relevant to the show, but you just think would be neat. So anything you think about this, you got any ideas you have about this world that aren’t necessarily canonical yet.

Tina: I think I only have the one head cannon that kind of ended up being actual cannon. Yeah. So I mean, it kind of counts. We had been talking about the ghosts. And at the time, you were just talking about how ghosts were, your ghosts were going to be these bits of unfinished story, like somebody like writing a story. And I forget exactly how you described it. Do you remember?

Deej: Not really, because I was still tossing around a bunch of ideas then. I just didn’t want to do ghosts that were traditionally ghosts. I still haven’t decided how much I want there to be like undead creatures in this world at all. Like obviously there are obviously there are those monsters. But it was something that I didn’t really necessarily want to deal with in the sort of philosophy of this world yet. And so I didn’t want there to be like proof of life after death in this world. And so I was like, well, maybe ghosts are like more tied into the storytelling aspect, but then you dot dot dor

Tina: So I’m, we have a listener named Ms. Becca and she has spreadsheets and tracks all these things. And I’m sure more people do like, but it’s just kind of a running joke that you know, Becca does all these things.

That’s normally me with things that I listen to. So I’m immediately like, how would that work? What could we do? Oh my gosh. So in this world, like if that was the case, could you be like a ghost hunter? Like, could you help them do their unfinished business? Like if you go in and like with the tablet or a recorder and like you finish writing their stories, like do they move on? Like, are they done?Like, how would that even work? And then the episode comes around and I was just like, ah, it’s the thing. It’s the thing. That’s very cool. And I don’t know that I have any like, because I feel like I got just so wrapped up and actually like telling the story. So I don’t have any major headcanons.I need to honestly, at some point I’m going to do a real listen and just like beginning to end and not just, okay, let me make sure that this sounds okay before I let other people listen to it. Okay, good. We’re good. We’re good. But just to sit down and you know, beginning to end and I’m sure other things will pop up when I do that and sort of get out of creator mode for it.

Deej: That’s fair. Sarah?

Sarah: Ooh, I haven’t thought about it a whole lot and this is I think just for me and is very silly. But when I think about how like some people are like, oh, you know, like is the Raven like Edgar Allan Poe and all of that. I think, ooh, what other like historical kind of like creepy figures could there be and my brain goes to Vincent Price. And so I’m like, ooh, who would he be? And like, how would that tie into the world? I think it’s a possibility. And I think that could be my brain just thinks it’d be very fun. Don’t know who he would be. But I think it’s a thing.

Deej: Nice. Yeah. Robin?

Robin: I don’t think I have any and I’m not sure what that says about me. I haven’t really thought of it.

Deej: I’ll give you another minute to think. Sarah, we just, this sort of ties in the head cannons, I think, because it’s stuff that I have mentioned, but we haven’t really gotten too deep into yet. I have established that October is a world that can’t have libraries. So how do you feel about that?

Sarah: I have a hard time with that. Because my brain’s like how libraries are everywhere, like everyone has a personal library, like it’s a thing that exists. So I try not to think about it too much. I think I would just like your brain would focus on it a lot. But I have a hard time with it. And like I understand the reasoning and also my brain’s like but libraries are everywhere.

Deej: I just realized that I never asked you that. So you do know as well about the I think I told you before about the one piece of lore that I actually stole from you.

Sarah: Ooh, the little finger monsters?

Deej: Yes, the little ones that Auncle Lantern is talking about, which we haven’t gotten into further, we will at some point. You had said well I said, what monsters do you want me to incorporate in the world? And you said those little like finger puppet monsters? And I like I love those too. And so I was like, okay, so that’s what the little ones are going to be. And so even though no one gets to see that, I just imagine like Auncle Lantern just putting like their hands into like their robe or whatever and just coming out with them. On like every finger.

Sarah: Yeah, I associate them with you. Like over our friendship, it’s a thing that makes me think about you. So I was like, they have to be in there. Like, they have to be in the world. And I like to imagine them as like the actual like still little rubber ones, but they move their little arms and their little mouths talk.

Deej: Yep. Well, they sing. That’s what they’ve done so far. So that was, Caro and I had a chat about it like at the time, I said, I don’t really know what to do with with these little guys when they come out. And I suggested I said maybe they get there could just be like this chime or something. But we kind of decided that they come out and they just like each of them just makes like a separate little musical note.And so it’s just this little like chord of this little choir or whatever when they come out. Yeah, again, I’m not giving any canon. I mean, I’ve already done too much.

What is your, what was your favorite moment of the season? And I honestly, as much as, as much as it’s self aggrandizing, I just have to say my favorite moment is my scene with Karo because I just love the idea that they finally like get to the center of the world, they meet this like mystical Oz like figure and get absolutely nothing out of it. Like this was…

Robin: Honestly that is a very Wizard of Oz moment.

Deej: This was the first piece of the story that I came up with after Pumpkin Patch. Like before I even knew for sure we were moving on with it was that episode. Because I was like, I want to do an episode where I take Karo through like the traditional hero’s journey and just subvert everything I can. So like their companion gets them nowhere and like abuses them and like runs off without them. They barely make it and like the transformations that like are traditional in a hero’s  journey don’t happen. And they get to the end and they get none of the answers they wanted.

Robin: Very true, actually.

Deej: And it just made me so happy to do that. Like it’s very much it’s sort of like Oz and it’s sort of like the Willy Wonka thing too, where all of a sudden you get to the end and like there’s this like heroic figure and they’re just like abusing you. So other folks favorite moments?

Tina: I think mine is when the Raven first shows up and you’re like for a split second you’re just like, oh, oh the Raven. Oh, and he’s Edgar Allen Poe and it’s Leeman. So of course it’s going to be poetic and he’s like, you know, like, “eat shorts!” and oh, this is what we’re in for. Interesting. Okay.

Sarah: Mine is actually the same as Tina’s like they eat my shorts line always just sticks out in my head. I remember like when I was introducing my wife to the show, we were listening to the episode together, how funny they found it.It has like a fun little like memory for me. And I think also the picnic that Karo and Yvonne are on. My dynamic with my wife is very similar to Karo and Yvonne’s like all the happy parts of it anyway. And so it feels very like special to listen to that together. But that like first episode at the end just feels very sweet and special to me.

Deej: Robin, did we get you?

Robin: No, I think mine is actually mine’s actually going to be in episode eight. It’s actually when they decide to kind of go on their own journeys. And I think I like it not because it’s sad, but it was such a fun recording moment between me and Tina, that we were trying to out emotion each other.Who can cry more? But no, it’s just either something about that moment. And I remember getting a note from you for the second, I think we recorded it two or three times. But there’s a note you gave me saying Karo starts out and builds from there. They are going to get really excited about it because of all the possibilities. And it just made that storytelling moment really fun for me to perform, but also changed my mind about it, gave me more hope for their future than I had before I started recording it. But I think it’s yeah, that moment.

Deej: And again, this is from me, not the not necessarily because the question just said everyone in general. But I wanted to just touch base for a second on the monologues as well, because that was a big change. I mean, there are monologues, obviously, there are monologues in Moonbase, the first two seasons are monologues. But I wanted to keep that as a big part of this show for creating the overall feel of the world and just telling these stories that each one, even if it doesn’t necessarily connect like I mean, the Raven monologue doesn’t necessarily connect to anyone but the Raven and stuff like that to just like take these deep, deep dives. And so I’m just kind of interested in how those landed for you as people who like listened as well as like being part of it too.

Tina: I like world building, they were very good.

Deej: Like they’re also a lot harder. In fact, like two of them, I would say the Raven monologue and the Mothman monologue were the hardest things, probably the hardest things I’ve ever written for podcasts at this point.

Tina: Oh wow.

Robin: The Mothman one. Oh my god, so good.

Tina: David’s just, oh my god.

Robin: I could listen to David read the fucking dictionary.

Tina: Uh-huh.

Deej: Yeah, and I wanted him for that part from the beginning, but that one was probably the hardest for like the research because I wanted it to like sound authentically Appalachian. And so I spent a lot of time trying to make sure that was right. And a lot of time with David like making sure that like he was able to perform it the way he  wanted to as well. Like we went through, I sent him, I did a lot of research on YouTube because I wanted to hear people actually talking.

And there were some nice accounts of like actual like African American Appalachian, like older men like talking and just like telling stories and stuff that I was able to give him as examples of where to start from. So like I was really happy with how that turned out. But by God, that was a lot of work.

And with Raven, it was kind of the same thing. It was so much work because there was so much research because I wanted it all to make sense. I wanted it all to be like, okay, there are these experiences that Poe had in another world, but it all fits into his history and it all could have happened. And like he does die the way that he’s supposed to die and everything. So like nobody really understands the way that Edgar Allen Poe died, like he just showed up on somebody’s doorstep, deathly ill and wearing clothes no one recognized. And like a few days later died and no one really understood like how it happened. So I was like, I can fit that story too. But just like everything and trying to give him all these lines from his poems to like work into the narrative.

It was just, oh, it took tons of work. But I love them both so much. Both of those monologues. And being able to give each of you extra bits of your story at the end too, like I wanted to, we’ve made references the whole season to like, oh, Karo had this whole experience on our side that no one knows about and to be able to fill in those gaps. And I wanted to be able to give Yvonne again, just sort of more time to explain the headspace that she was in too. I like the show. I think it’s a…

Tina: Good show.

Deej: I’ve got a bunch of little writing related questions that I will go through as fast as I can, because it’ll just be me talking to myself before we get to a couple of big ones at the end. Okay, someone said, can I be besties with the Robin Hood nerd who’s on the team? I know you exist, you can’t deny it. And I am that Robin Hood nerd. Not a huge one, because like, I admit that Robin Hood still like begins and ends with me with Disney. I just loved that so much and loved it so much when I was a kid. But yeah, having like read all the stuff when I was a kid and like the Howard Pyle book and everything, books and everything, stories and everything, and just being able to work all of those things into it was a lot of fun. And Alan has just always been my favorite character from that mythology.

So let me see, I’ve got a bunch of questions that someone from Patreon just gave me today. And they’re all like big plot things that I probably won’t be able to give solid answers to. First one.

Tina; You could make something up.

Deej: Yeah. There are other fundamentals out there by the sound of it. Are there any we haven’t met yet that’ll be showing up if you do a season two, which hopefully we will be. The council claims to be witches, but my money is on a witch capital W witch out there somewhere, a Baba Yaga equivalent. Which is kind of funny because my original idea for Bergen was going to be basically a Baba Yaga equivalent. That instead of being this like troll who lived like up in the mountains, was going to be this like major like capital W witch that lived out in the woods and was going to enter their story in that way. But then I haven’t completely decided, but I think that the witches in this world are going to be mostly council and mostly pretty fake. So she sort of just became this troll who lived in the mountains. But are there other fundamentals out there? There definitely are. We mentioned at least one that we haven’t seen yet, the grandmoth. But I know that there are others as well that I sort of have in my notes. So will they be showing up in season two? That I don’t know yet. I don’t have any of them in my plans for season two yet. But that doesn’t mean they won’t show up. The grandmoth is the fundamental who is basically one of the butterfly people, which we reference butterfly people a couple of times. So I was like, okay, the butterfly people have a fundamental. What are they? And I was like, grandmoth.

Does the Raven have any other favorite karaoke songs? Also, what’s the Raven like when he’s been drinking absinthe? Okay, any other favorite karaoke songs? Well, we’ve determined that he likes Ozzy. I think he does a lot of metal. I think he likes screaming. I tend to think of him doing karaoke as sort of like, if you ever saw the Grezco miniseries on Netflix, which is like a Sanrio characters, like this little cat who like sings metal music, and just sort of like absolutely wails when she goes into these karaoke rooms. And so I kind of think of him as doing anything like really loud and screechy, because that’s what he does. And that was why like Ozzy was my first thought. So I’m sure that his list is interesting. What’s the Raven like when he’s been drinking absinthe? You don’t want to know. You really don’t. Basically, like, all the fun, I’m imagining just all the fun leaching out of him. And he is just like the moody, like depressing side of Poe. So I don’t think that anyone enjoys that.

Sarah: I like to imagine the Raven also really loves doing karaoke to let the bodies hit the floor. Maybe I can just imagine Leeman doing that. But I feel like that’s a very good Raven karaoke song.

Deej: That would be fun. Another question, there’s a witch school, do they also run universities? Does the council run most organized education in October or do different factions like all the underwater folks, have schools pun unintentional, of their own? Okay, this is off the cuff because that’s not really a decision I’ve made. I don’t, I think there are universities. This again, this is a world where there needs to, where things get to where they need to be. And I think that there aren’t a ton of monster stories at universities other than Monster University, of course. But I don’t really think that there’s necessarily a lot beyond that. I think there are just witch schools and the witch schools educate people to whatever level they need to be educated. I do think there are probably like other like small like village type schools that the different factions run. But I don’t think that, I don’t think that education necessarily happens the same way.

In this world, I tend to think of it as sort of like I was saying before about the ways that organized education and organized religion have been used to sort of like try to like specifically beat down or like push out the otherness in people that I kind of think that the resonance of October have found other ways to pass on knowledge that isn’t as strictly organized as the council schools. We’ll probably get into more of that more eventually.

How does The Endling do the lake thing anyway, presumably sheer will power? How does The Endling do the lake thing anyway? I think because this is something, I was watching Deadpool versus Wolverine again last night, which I’ve watched more times than I want to admit. And there’s the character there Cassandra who is basically like a female Professor X and has these like huge mental powers that allow her to sort of like keep a small group of people shielded from the world that she lives in, which is otherwise like really harsh and destroys you pretty quickly. And I was wondering I was thinking while I watched it was like, does she have to like focus on doing that all the time? Like keeping that little bubble together? Like is that something she has to constantly do all the time?Or is it just something that after a while she gets used to happening?

And I was thinking about The Endling with the lake thing too, is that I think The Endling just sort of has this little bubble at the center of the world of absolute nonsense where things work, things only work the way that they want them to. And so I think the lake thing works just because it like hits the edge of that little bubble. But that is me making something up on the spur of the moment so. But that still works as sheer willpower though. So I didn’t say I didn’t lie about it.

And a couple of like sort of bigger things that I put at the end to allow us to just sort of have some like big future looking discussions or like interior looking discussions at least because the first one I just wanted to talk to you all about. I feel like and if this is just me you can like tell me that and I’ll just talk about it by myself. I feel like this show is something that has come to mean a lot more to me as a creator, as a person, than Moonbase did. Not that I don’t love Moonbase, but it’s something that I feel like I’ve connected a lot more intimately and emotionally with from the very beginning. And some of that is like working together so closely ,recording together so closely. And some of it is just that like I’m writing about two of my favorite things, monsters and storytelling. But I wanted to give you guys a chance to talk about what you think is particularly special to you about this show and why you like keep working on it for virtually no money.

Tina: I don’t think it’s just you. I definitely like, I’ve liked every show that I’ve done something for but this one and one other show really stand out as just something really special. And I don’t know that I can pinpoint necessarily what it is, like stuff that really just to me absolutely like I could you know we’ve talked about a lot of it. But I think just because a lot of us like stories so much that it’s literally talking about telling stories and it’s this fantastical thing and yada yada but it’s really very grounded like Robin was saying earlier. And I don’t know which honestly might be part of why some shows just come off a little more special like there’s just something there that really works. And I mean I don’t know it could be because I’m involved with it and I make more but I definitely connect with it and it is something that I don’t enjoy it more than Moonbase but I feel like it’s something that when you know, with a new show we don’t have that big of an audience yet. But when people hear it they’re going to relate to it more they’re going to enjoy it more and it’s definitely going to resonate with people in a way that Moonbase didn’t necessarily.

D.J.: Sarah, Robin, one of you want to jump in?

Robin: I know for me this show, I was so excited to be cast in this show and it really didn’t hit me the scope that I was going to be involved in until you were like, hey you’re going to be our Karo. But I think it’s just not just the storytelling which is brilliant and I love just the foundation of emotion like in the human like throughout like just the human emotions throughout all of this and you know like Tina said just being grounded in that and something that’s so fantastical. But there’s something about the camaraderie of behind the scenes as well that I think has just really made it all the more special. So I feel like it’s just the scope of things I think it’s just this beautiful combination of storytelling and just everything that just the way we communicate outside of just hey this is recording this is that you know it’s the check-ins it’s the hey update little updates on our own lives and stuff I think it’s just it feels really much like you hear about those shows that have like it’s like oh we’re like a little family we’re a little community and I feel like we’ve really built on that and it’s I think it’s also helped with the live recordings as well we can hear everything in real time. So it just grounds our performances as well. I think yeah, I feel very fortunate that I get to work with all of you.

Deej: Aww.

Sarah: This is a show that like teenage me would have loved. I was this very like weird kid that was really into Halloween and creepy stuff and monsters and like knew I was queer but wasn’t out and so for me at least, it feels like I’m doing it for the little like 13 year old me. Just like, oh I get to help make this cool show with so many cool people, I get to be involved in a little small way and like put out this really cool story and world out there and so I think for me that’s one reason why like I’ve been so excited to help is just like teenage me would think this is really cool and I think that’s awesome.

Robin: Oh no younger me too would have been all about this.

Tina: Oh yeah.

Deej: All right and our last question and you can take some time with this if you want you can respond to this in any way you want to and with any characters you want to. I’m just curious before I tell any of you anything, which I like I mean some like we’ve talked a little bit about some of the like endgame of the series in general behind the scenes we’ve talked a little bit about the potential endgame for some for your characters behind the scenes. But what do you think is coming next in the story based on the season we’ve just told.

Robin: Feelings jail

Tina: Okay that’s cheating. I feel like you’re going to tell another story. I mean not necessarily like how this was kind of like a romance that was the overarching plot right. I feel like, I don’t necessarily think that our characters are going to be like background but to me the logical thing because I feel like it’s too soon to like to wrap that up with a little bow and say okay are they aren’t they.So I feel like while they’re going to be there I would not be surprised if you found a different story to sort of tell and lean away from the relationship aspect. I just don’t know what that story is. Besides like the mini series, like I know what that is basically about. I’m trying to think of all the little things that you’ve talked about. Maybe we see more people crossing. Maybe more people from October go to the real world and we follow them for a while sort of flip the script a little bit.

Robin: That would be really cute.

Tina: Bergen running around New York City or something.

Robin: Oh yes!

Deej: Bergen would have to be dragged over there. I wonder, I’m willing to bet that Bergen has never actually crossed.

Tina: Probably. Maybe too loud. I wonder if, would her powers work the same way?

Deej: Or if she has she like found the like crossing that just goes to like another mountaintop in our world and no one else is there.

Tina: Maybe she would. Maybe it would be more quiet.

Deej: I could see her doing that.

Tina: She wouldn’t have to hear everybody.

Deej: Yeah.

Sarah: I feel kind of the same as Tina like I think it’s going to be a different story. Don’t ask me what that story is but it’s like, I think some of the characters we’ve met will be a little more background and others will come to the forefront but I don’t know who that is. Hmm.

Deej: Well you’re allowed to guess. You’re allowed to make stuff up. Are there like minor characters that you’re really hoping to hear more from?

Tina: Frederick.

Robin: Yes!

Deej: I think since you mentioned Frederick I think I’m going to admit something to the audience that I wasn’t necessarily going to admit, which is that I’m not going to confirm that it was Frederick in the final monologue that we hear with Karo but I will tell you that Ishani did the cat noises for the cat that we hear in the final monologue. So if that allows you to consider to believe that, that it’s Frederick then feel free.

Robin: In my head it was.

Deej: We don’t, we don’t list them in the credits.

Tina: Oh wait a minute ,wait a minute.

Deej: If we finish this chat I’ll tell you. What?

Tina: No no I am indulging myself, continue.

Deej: That’s what this question is for.

Tina: Yeah I ignore me, I’m good. I’m just trying to remember. You said they were not in the credits?

Deej: They weren’t in the credits because I didn’t want people to look at the show notes and be like oh that’s Frederick because I’m not entirely sure if it is.

Tina: I was going to say I’m not going to spoil anything but I am looking at what you have that character named on the script.

Deej: Yes because well I know I’m not we’re not talking about what I have it named on the script.

Tina: I know, that’s why I didn’t say. I was going to say unless people would like to send me money. My Ko-Fi, my cashapp.

Deej: But when we went in, Ishani was recording for the Frederick monologue which is another like hugely fun piece of the show of this story. I was like here can you just give me some extra cat noises at the end that do this this and this and I’m going to use them for the final monologue.

Tina: That’s cute.

Deej: Anything else that’s coming next in the story? Any characters you’re excited to find out about like I’m like we’ve all talked about Grey and I mean Geay is definitely going to be a big part of it as Karo tries to like move back into October full time.

Tina: I want to see the enemies back to bestie’s arc between Yvonne, Karo and Grey.

Robin: Yes there we go that’s what I want.

Tina: Actually Deej you’re going to hate me for this but I would love to read Gai’s paper. Like I and I know I’m not the only one but I realized that you know for that to happen somebody would have to write it but you know.

Deej: Well like I said she’s going to be coming back into it because I was trying to think about what someone who was like trying to study the actual, because we’re going to get into this a little bit in the miniseries as well because again this isn’t going to be much of a spoiler for once you’ve heard the final episode but the miniseries is going to involve the moon.

Tina: The moon!

Deej: And so that must involve like some little bit of learning more about the science of this world too. And so that was like part of why Gabi was there and why Gabi is the person she is was to start like putting together the actual bones of like how a world like this would work like physics wise and physiology wise and stuff and so I wanted her to be studying something that was kind of interesting in that way and so but still tied into what I wanted to talk about storytelling too and so the fact that she is exploring like the internal rhythms of these like monsters and how they work and how they work in this world is going to be fun and definitely not the last you’re going to hear of it so yeah. Anything else?

Tina: Are you going to tell us if we got it right?

Robin: Subtle, I like it.

Tina: Yeah like what happened? Like we made guesses, are we right? I had to try.

Deej: Not while we’re recording at least.

Tina: I know.

Deej: Um yeah I think maybe we’ll end it there unless anybody else has anything else they wanted to talk about or any little stories. Any special behind the scenes thing you wanted to tell the listeners before we say goodbye?

Robin: I don’t think so, not me.

Deej: Sarah, how has this experience been for you? I mean you produce another podcast. You co-produce Sounds from the Shelves which everyone should go and take a listen to, it’s the podcast about the inner workings of the Salt Lake County Library system which is really fun to listen to and I am a big fan. But how has this experience been? Like you came into this, I originally asked you in part because like I always wanted to find something that we could like sort of collaborate on some way but you were talking about at the beginning too like starting a separate podcast of your own that I don’t know if you’re still considering or not but I’m just interested in how this whole experience has worked out for you as a producer.

Sarah: It’s been very interesting. So the other podcast I do, I do for work and mostly I just like we come up with the themes we want to do and we just like chat with people that either work for our library system or are in the community and most of our listeners I think are library employees with like a select few like family and friends and that’s very fun. But it’s it’s very different. The two other co-hosts we all have lots of chaotic energy, it’s just a very different time and I mostly for that just kind of show up and record and don’t do a whole lot of other stuff and so for this it’s been more behind the scenes. I’ve done a lot of like the social media for the stuff and I managed the crowdfunding campaign and some things were more overwhelming than I thought they would be, especially like filling rewards for crowdfunding stuff. I was like okay cool, like I’ve got this down, I’ve got a system and then the world kind of caught on fire and I’m still trying to play catch up and that’s been a whole thing. And yeah one reason I had decided to say yes was because I was like oh I’m thinking about doing kind of like my own podcast it was going to be like fiction kind of spooky based in a library that’s on the back burner right now as I go through recovering burnout and things but it’s still just been like a really fun experience especially someone who’s like not doing any of the voice acting. I’ve had a really nice time and I just feel really lucky that I get to like be part of the team in a little way.

Tina: A little? You do so much.

Sarah: Oh thank you!

Deej: And tying it a little bit to that as we close out, Robin and Tina is there anything else that you want to talk about as far as other shows you’re doing you want to plug or other media that you work in that you want to talk about or just fun stuff that you want people to find you at? Since we did bring up Sarah’s other podcast which…

Robin: Nothing right now I mean I’m not very active on social media but you can find me at RobinRegs on basically everything.

Tina: Mm-hmm. Oh no I don’t, mine I put punctuation in mine so let me go look. Yeah I’m actually not recording anything right now because we are done and then we finished. I was doing the Welcome to the Horizon, The Midnight Burger mini series and that is finished and we, they’re gonna do more so I’m literally at the moment just doing nothing and it’s really nice. And I know both things are going to start at the same time because that’s how things go but I am Instagram and threads as tinacase_vo and I am on Bluesky as some semblance of that tina case vo.com because you can do self verification on Bluesky and it’s very nice. All that being said that requires me to remember to post on social media. Sometimes I’m good at it and sometimes I am not which makes it really funny that I was starting a essentially a marketing online degree it’s I think digital studies at ASU so we’ll see if I get my ducks in a row. Probably not though.

Deej: Cool though.

Tina: Yeah!

Deej: And definitely like please go and find everyone that we worked with on other shows that they do we keep our cast and crew page that generally has at least a link or two for each person if they gave me one and you can always just look the people up too. Podchaser is really good for that if you haven’t tried Podchaser yet for finding other shows people do and just to put in a little plug for… Moonbase is not coming back, sorry for people who still think it might but we are doing audio versions of the short stories I wrote last year for Patreon. Cass is producing one a month and putting them up on the Moonbase feed and so that’s sort of extra Moonbase stuff for you. None of those like stories actually changed anything canonically but they did give you a little bit a look into the like further lives and in at least one case the far earlier life of characters from the show so keep an eye on that for the rest of the year and then Moonbase will be quiet again. MonkeyTales is always still out there, I don’t know if there’ll ever be new MonkeyTales episodes but the stories we did put out on there I really like and like to think that people still listen to occasionally and I think that’s everything I have to plug. Mostly what I’m doing right now is getting ready for the next parts of this which I can’t tell you about. So I think that’s where we are thank you very very much for listening to this for listening to the show and we appreciate all of the work people have done to share the story around to do like little reviews of episodes and stuff anywhere that you can rate things if you rate us it helps more people to see the show. Any chance you get to like share it around and social media always helps as well. Our Patreon will still have behind the scenes stuff coming up even when we are quiet for the season and you can join our Patreon for basically anything from a dollar a month and you get everything that we have to give. I decided a long time ago that I didn’t really want to tier things on our Patreon so anything we give you there. Any behind the scenes stuff, any early access to episodes, everyone gets no matter what they donate so that’s a good place to support the show as well. We have merch links on our website. We have a Teepublic store and a Red Bubble store now which gives you a chance to buy stuff if you want. The Red Bubble was mostly so that I could make a bunch more stickers but I can put on everything. So all of those are ways to help support us as well as we get ready to tell you the next part of the story and yeah, I mean you can follow us anywhere and Tina will probably give things away when she’s not supposed to so…

Tina: Probably, honestly.

Deej: Yeah so just follow her really don’t even bother to follow me.

Tina: It’s like Tom Holland. It’s…

Deej: Exactly.
Tina: I would make up fake spoilers but with my luck they would end up being like legit and then I would get in trouble for you know, so Murphy’s Law.

Deej: But yes I will end things here and say thank you very much. Again the show has been… you can find all of our casting crew information on the website. All of our sound design was done by Caroline Mincks this season who is amazing and does their own show, Seen and Not Heard which you should be listening to. Trace Callahan, our composer, has done work on numerous other shows I can’t even tell you but did their own audio fiction story as well called, The Last Echo, I believe? I can’t see it at the moment but that’ll be linked on our cast and crew page as well. Everyone who has helped out with the show is amazing and I can’t wait to do more of this with them so please keep an eye out and help us to keep telling our stories.