Deej: Hey folks, we are back with another sort of producery chat, although this, there is only one producer in attendance right now, which is me. But I have our audio folks, so we can talk a little bit about the sound and music behind Waiting for October. And so that’s going to be the focus of the chat today. I have our sound designer Caroline Elizabeth Minks and Trace Callahan. And then, of course, the Caroline Elizabeth will come in later, we’ll explain that. I think I explained it last chat, too. But then we’re going to answer some questions and talk about some things that I had in mind about the sound design and the music that went behind the first season. So folks, would you like to introduce yourselves?
Caro: Trace, you want to go first?
Trace: Sure, I was going to ask you. Hold on. Okay. So I am Trace Callahan. I did the musical bits, most of them, for this season one of the show and the opening credits type deal. And I love making musical noises and stories. Caro’s turn!
Caro: I am indeed Caroline Elizabeth Minks, which made, you know, designing this really weird when I kept hearing my own name. And yeah, I’m the sound designer for this show, which was quite a challenge as someone who has famously has bad hearing.
Deej: Yeah, we were talking in the producer chat the other day about parallels that like particularly Tina and Robin found with their characters. And so Caroline Elizabeth Minks came up then again now, because I was just like, I didn’t know any of these things. I didn’t know your middle name until that was already in there.
Caro: It was so funny. I was like, now what’s the last name? Like if it rhymes, I’m out.
Deej: And what’s funny is I’m not sure. I’m not sure that Karoline has one. I’m not sure Karo has one yet.
Trace: Oh, there’s an opportunity there.
Caro: You could get a little similar if you really wanted to.
Deej: I could call it differently though since.
Caro: M-E-E-N-K-S.
Trace: It’s kicking X in there.
Caro: Yeah.
Deej: It could just be M-I-N-X.
Trace: Minx like Saucy, yes.
Deej: That would kind of work. Okay. So yeah, to try to keep myself vaguely on track here, I do have a list of questions. I wanted to start from the very beginning because you both sort of joined this purpose or this story at very different times.
So if you want to start out by just sort of saying a few words about how you came to work with the show and what made you want to be a part of it because God knows it wasn’t the money.
Caro: I was just really interested because you said you were looking for a sound designer and I was like, you know what? I want to get better at sound design because it’s something I find really interesting.
And I do some of it for my own shows and I’m always kind of flying by the speed of my pants. And I just sort of threw my hat in the ring and I said, hey, I need a sound designer because I sort of do that. And yeah, I was excited to kind of learn as I went and I was also intrigued by the idea of designing monsters because I had no idea what that was going to be like.
Deej: No, none of us knew what it was going to be like. But no, it was nice to, because I did, I sort of was just starting to like share with friends that, oh, we need to find a sound designer. Because again, as I mentioned in the producer chat, Cass has refused to do anything production wise associated with me anymore after Moonbase. But yeah, it was nice to have someone who I knew and someone to sort of jump up at the moment because I wanted to come back into dialogue editing as well.
And so it was important to me that I found somebody that I knew I could like bounce back and forth with that way. Since the last couple seasons of Moonbase, our various sound designers had done dialogue edits as well, which was kind of a pain in the butt because I still had to give like notes back and forth on them. And I was so far behind in writing the show that I felt like I couldn’t take it on fully. But when I committed to the first season of this show, also having the scripts done completely beforehand, which is nice when you can get it. I wanted to get back in the dialogue as well. And so that was a lot better too. I feel like dialogue editing is still kind of a director’s job anyway. You’ve sort of made all those decisions. But yeah, I felt like that really worked nicely. Trace, you started a lot earlier because you wrote the theme music back when we did the…
Trace: The Pumpkin Patch.
Deej: Yeah, Monkey Tales.
Trace: The Monkey Tales. I don’t even remember. I was trying to remember it this morning exactly how long ago that was. I feel like it was like 2020 or 2021.
Deej: Yeah, it was, I can’t remember, it was like 2021 or 2022.
Trace: It was a while ago.
Deej: A while back.
Trace: Yeah, and it was one of those things where you had let me join in as a sound designer for a different episode of Monkey Tales. And I’d really loved doing that and working with you. And then you were like, oh, hey, I’m doing this other one. And you asked me to do the sound design for the kind of protopilot.
And then, oh, and we would also really like theme music. And I’m like, okay! And I remember us having a probably half hour conversation about kind of the world and the inspirations and general ideas. And you teased out some extremely intriguing nature of story type questions. And I was immediately sold because as you’ve discovered over the last however many years it’s been, like, if you get me started on the nature of story, I will not stop talking. And then once we did the Monkey Tales episode, it was like, oh, that was really wonderful. Hopefully we’ll come back to it someday. And then a couple of years later, it’s like, oh yeah, let’s go. Oh, and I would like lots more music. So are you good? And I’m like, yes, I’m absolutely ready.
Deej: And then I had to force you to like, charge me for it and all.
Trace: Yeah, I know.
Caro: One thing about Trace…
Deej: I love both of you but it’s so different, like, business-wise, because with Caro, like, immediately, it’s like, okay, there’s an understanding there’s going to be a business side involved with Trace. I have to sort of like, force it on them.
Caro: Really! One thing I’ve learned about Trace, you have to be like, let me pay you! Let me give you some money dang it!
Trace: So it’s one of those things where I’m working with people and the two people in this metaphorical room right now who are still, to me, like, my heroes and elders in this space. So getting the chance to work with people I love telling awesome stories is, I won’t say payment enough because my electric company can’t take that, but, you know, it’s pretty awesome.
Deej: Well, I continue to try to find ways to pay everyone so…
Trace: Yeah, it works out.
Deej: So, yeah, sort of coming in from that, my next question I had written down was to talk a little bit about the process from your ends, because I know that in both cases we had to sort of invent a process to, even though, like, Trace and I had, like, had done the music a long time ago for the original one part of this, it was just sort of me pitching a bunch of ideas and then hiding away and it was done. We had a quite different process for the first season.
Caro: Oh, man. Yeah, this was a very new thing for me because, like I said, I’ve done sound design, but most of what I’ve done is either super stylized and kind of cartoony or really, really, really, really simple. We’re just almost not there, like, I kind of, I’ve always previously had a rule where I, everyone flies in my shows. There’s no footsteps. I know, if I’m designing it, normally you do not hear people walking and I’m just like, no one is going to notice, it’s fine. There’s a lot of walking in this show turns out.
Trace: And how the walking sounds is actually, like, sometimes vitally important in this show.
Caro: Yeah! Exactly, exactly.
Deej: And seriously, even after we had worked together the entire season, every walking design note I have for Yvonne is like, remember the cane.
Caro: Yeah! And I had to find fun little ways to kind of sneak in like, okay, that sort of sounds like the scrape or the tap or just like a little extra thing. Just here and there because you’re not necessarily going to hear it every single step. But you have to hear it a little and it adds so much. And, you know, I think just trying to kind of train myself to, because I do a lot of sound design visually. I can’t hear the cane that I designed.
I can’t hear the footsteps most of the time. So I’m going fully off of what it looks like in the program. And it’s odd. It’s sort of like when you’re reading music and you’re looking at the notes and what they look like. And you can sort of tell what it’s going to sound like. I’m doing that with sound effects.
Trace: Like the waveforms and stuff?
Caro: Yeah! Yeah, exactly. That’s how I can tell the rhythm of something or how, you know, loud or quiet it is. And because I’m not necessarily able to lie on my ears to get that information. And so trying to do that with footsteps is one thing and trying to do it with, you know, Kaiju is a whole other story. I was like, this could be a monster, sure.
Deej: I thought your sound design notes were interesting too.
Caro: There were some fun ones in there like, how in the world?
Deej: Now they have to back up. We have to note they’ve backed away.
Trace: Yeah.
Caro: Yeah, it was a fun challenge, but it was definitely one where I… was the number of times I had to be like, hey, this is going to be a little late because I played it back and it’s trash actually, so I got to fix all of this.
Trace; Yeah don’t even listen yet. Just don’t.
Caro: It’s like, hey, don’t don’t touch it. I’m going to fix it and then you can have it.
Deej: But yeah, like you were saying a lot of our early conversations, I think we’re about the environmental stuff because that was something you hadn’t really focused on much before.
Caro: Yeah. You know, and I just remember reading the scripts and growing, oh, how do you design another world? Yeah, what on earth does another world sound like when I don’t even always know what my own sounds like. And talking about sounds that I have sort of forgotten and having to go back and trying to hear them as best as I can and apply them in a whole new way because there’s, you know, we don’t like monsters here as far as we know, aren’t really in existence. We don’t have, you know, I don’t have like, I don’t have Kaiju in my backyard. I don’t know what they sound like.
Trace: There’s no reference.
Caro: Yeah, exactly. Thank you. Yeah, exactly. And it was cool because that meant that I could start really from a blank slate and kind of, I get to decide a little bit what this sounds like. But only with sounds that do exist in our world. So that was really interesting. Like when you were like, hey, we need to make a sound of going between two worlds. And I was like, yeah, sure! Why not?
Deej: Because, yeah, there was absolutely nothing for that. And I think I gave you a really vague description of something to like play with and then you…
Caro: Yeah! I’m trying to remember exactly what you said, but I know there was something about like pressure and pulsing and then some kind of release or a pop or something at the end. And I took that one really literally.
Deej: Yeah, but it’s great. Like, I think that’s so great because it makes it more physical that way because it’s like the whole like teleportation thing where like rushes into the space that was occupied and stuff. So that’s what I think.
Caro: Yeah, it was fun. It was really fun to play with and it was really fun to do a bunch of different versions of that, for example. And I was like, OK, I’m going to find a static and I’m going to use like a radio sound and I’m going to do this and I’m going to play around with the levels and the pitch and whatnot and just work it until it’s kind of this new unrecognizable thing that turns into something that we have to recognize every time it happens.
Deej: Yeah. And the Lindworm was I had things like, I just wrote like I need you to do a sort of flying flapping fishy sound.
Caro: Sure! A calliope that’s not doing music? I don’t know what that sounds like. But it was like…
Trace: Breathing or something.
Caro: Yeah! Yeah, I was like, I, hey, bike gears. My new favorite sound effect, I think, are bike gears because they’re so useful.
Trace: Oh they are.
Deej: Yeah!
Speaker 2: And yeah. And you learn that things like doors don’t sound like doors and you say you have to take like nine different sounds to make a door.
Deej: Yeah. Trace, how was the process from your end? Like I know that like, like I said before, you and I had like long chats before the season started.
Trace: Right. And a shopping list. Like you made me a shopping list of, I think I want versions of things that do like these eight different things. And listening to Caro talk, it’s almost like our processes were the reverse of each other in a way. Yeah. Because however many years ago that was, I wrote a song, a two or three minute song for the Monkey Tales episode. And the whole process of making music for season one was basically taking that whole thing and pulling bits of it apart to make smaller things and different things. Like basically unwinding all of the threads and taking like this little piece of this one is now it now belongs to this part of the story. And and over here, this, this is the Lindworm thing and and just taking it’s like like variations on the theme. So, so rather than having to make my own references because of the monsterness of it, I basically had a gigantic ball of reference material and got to be like, OK, well, now how can I make this reference material sound like? An underwater adventure or a kaiju or whatever we’re doing in the moment or a parade. That was actually the probably the furthest stretch.
Caro: Parade music is so good. I kept listening to it just to listen to it.
Deej: No, it was just it was one of those things that I always enjoy about, it happens more in TV shows than movies where it’s just like they find all of the like wild ways to bring in the like main theme of the show over and over and over again. And I was like, well, we can have fun doing that because again, like it’s the same world. It’s like October has this like main theme and then different parts of the world interpreted in different ways. We’ve got the pop version. We’ve got the parade version and everything.
Trace: And I accidentally wrote myself a really, really useful base for this when we did the original because it’s five or six distinct layers that all kind of wove together to make the theme song. And so if you pull apart the two layers of the background and the four solo instruments, well, there’s a lot of different options there. I had no idea that was going to happen, but it worked out really nicely.
Deej: Yeah, it’s like I was just catching up on listening to the show myself, which it’s kind of interesting that I listened to October, because I never listened to Moonbase once the episodes were out. But so I was listening to the most recent main episode to release, which was the one with me in it. And ike the progression through the water is just like so gorgeous, but it’s still got like those little hints of a theme in there too. And it’s just really like awesome how many different ways we, you managed to do that really.
Trace: And I feel like as we worked on the episodes, because like I wrote all of the music. I kind of wrote the big thing a couple of years ago. And then last year before we started really producing wrote a whole bunch of like sketches of this is what I think that we were going to want based on that shopping list. And then as we kept talking, like it almost like felt like the music got to develop its own personality and we ended up by the end of the production process talking about like how part of the there’s stuff that belongs to Karo in part and stuff that belongs to Yvonne and and then there’s this little part of the music that actually belongs to like story.
Caro: Yeah!
Deej: Okay, let me jump forward here. I think we kind of covered… I was going to ask what was going on with the show compared to others you worked on but I think we’ve talked about that. What new skills or aspects of your work did you come up with for the show?
Caro: The entire job really. I just sort of… I had to take such a completely different approach because you wanted things that I normally don’t necessarily include in my own sound design and like with the footsteps for instance, like I had to learn all these different new ways of doing the sound design and layering the sound design and then going back and fixing things that needed fixing. And you know, how do you change the timing of this? How do you make this work? How do you that part? IT was really interesting and the part of trying to come up with something that sounds real is its own beast really. Because yeah, like I said, I’ve done a lot of like cartoony stuff and kind of silly and simple and stylized and I was like, oh, this has to sound like you’re actually in an apartment. Okay. How do you make a stairwell sound like a stairwell? How much echo is too much echo?
How much, you know, and what does a city actually sound like and how do you make this part of the city sound different from this part and how do you make this part of a park sound like a different part of the park? And how do you create movement when we can’t see it? And that was a really, that part alone was really interesting. Like we’ve got, you know, people, we’ve got werewolves jogging through a city and a park and I was like, okay, how do I make it sound like they’re actually traveling without it? You know, that part was really fun. That was maybe my favorite actually to design just because it sounds really simple.
Oh, there’s a group going on a jog. No, actually, turns out that’s not simple. You have to get the right number of footsteps and they all have to sound a little different because not, you know, two people are going to sound exactly the same when they’re running. And we need, you know, fabric wrestling or not because how much are they wearing really? And, you know, that list goes on. And I had never really sat there and thought about what does that actually sound like before. And that was just really cool. So I feel like my whole approach to sound design now even in my own stuff is completely changed.
Deej: Yeah, that one in particular was just because they do so much like they transform from were from human to were most cases, but not all of them because, so Grey is still wearing sneakers, but all the rest of them are running in bare feet. And then we go from concrete to grass. Yeah. Oh, it’s lots of fun. You did such a really a wonderful job with that.
Caro: I loved that one. It was so fun to do.
Deej: Trace, did anything new come up in your work on the show?
Trace: It did. And I’m trying to think of how to say it and how to put it into the right words. This has to be, and I’m going to say the sentence and then I’m going to qualify it because it’s not going to sound as good as it is. This has to be the slowest process I have ever had scoring a show. And in a really good way. Every other show I’ve worked on has been one of two different things. Most of the time it’s I get it right before it’s ready to go out into the world and everyone, including me, is super impatient for that to happen. So I’m working as fast as possible and just kind of making it all happen and either pulling a lot of very long days or making decisions partly based on the fact that I can’t handle slowing this process down any more than I have to. Or I have an extremely long time, but there’s so much music to be done that I still kind of end up in that place of like churning out material relatively quickly.
And I’ve taken a lot of pride in the last few years over the fact that I can turn out material pretty quickly and it doesn’t sound cruddy. But with this, like I got a chance to write a thing and then walk away from it for a year and then come back to it and write some more things based on the thing. And then again, walk away for a while because then there’s like a new a new layer to the process of okay now the music is here but we still don’t actually have recordings of the dialogue and there’s no sound design yet.
So I have to wait to do more to the music until we know like how long it needs to be because we’re, I’m just now reading a script in my head and guessing at the timing. And I actually did really surprisingly well at it, but not perfect. So just the fact that I got to work in a burst and then let things breathe and then come back to it was a very different process. I liked it a lot and I thought I would be driven a lot more crazy by it because again I’m reading the script and loving the story I’m hearing and then hearing the dialogue and going, oh but there’s still so much we have to do before this even happens! But it was it was really relaxed and comfortable. And I think that because there was more time for things to grow, I got to do a little bit more exploring and a lot more playing.
Deej: Yeah, it felt really collaborative even during the like process of the sound design you were still involved in the process of tweaking things and.
Trace: Yeah right. It was, t wasn’t like drop it and walk away which has happened also and it is my least favorite version of doing this. But it also wasn’t like we were had enough of schedules that there was never a moment where I was like, oh my gosh I have to like call out of work and get the song done or the world is over which is relatively normal.
Deej: What would you say was the hardest part of this whole season, each of you? And it can be like an overall thing if you don’t have a particular moment where there’s a particular moment you’re like, God that almost made me quit too.
Caro: Oh my gosh.
Trace: Nothing was hard enough to make me quit but I’m just going to say one thing and you’ll, you’ll know. Alan-a-Dale.
Deej: I knew that was going to come up eventually. I was giving you time to like work your way into it. I know, I know that’s something that like you never want to do it that way again.
Trace: No, that was a learning experience.
Caro: Oh my gosh.
Trace: He was, he was the easiest part of that whole thing.
Deej:No, no, it wasn’t him at all. It was just the process was unexpectedly difficult.
Caro: Oh my gosh. I feel like… yeah I never had a moment where I was like I’m out but I definitely had, and it had nothing to do with the show, it really was just me learning how to work with my own personal kind of challenges that I’ve got. I’m, you know I’m deaf, I’m hard of hearing and it makes it really hard and I literally just by existing as I do. I have days where my ears are going to work and days where they are not and then days where I think they’re going to work and then I get halfway through and I go, you know I don’t think this is happening today.
Trace; Yeah!
Caro: And learning how to kind of, how to properly pace myself when I’m doing this kind of work and figuring out what system really works for me. That was a whole new challenge because again, I’m designing things that don’t necessarily exist in our world and you have to get really detailed with it. So sometimes I’m playing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and making little tweaks and then I don’t even realize I’m kind of running out of listening for the day.
Deej: Yeah.
Caro: I have kind of a limited amount that I can use my ears every day and expect to get anywhere. And I think there were definitely, and it was never like one big thing. It was always like a little tiny detail that I get so hung up on that I could not get and often it was footsteps because, bane of my existence but I understand why they’re there, it’s fine. I’ve gotten better at them now. But they, you know trying to get them exactly right the pacing, the level. And I realized oh my gosh I’ve spent half an hour just listening to footsteps. So now I’m trying to put it into the thing and everything sounds like warped and I can’t, I can’t tell if it’s working anymore so I have to step away. And so yeah I think the time management part of this was actually the hardest.
Deej: Yeah that’s fair.
Trace: I think for me it was a process problem and like we were talking about before where the Alan challenge was that we had we weren’t going to be able to do the singing and the background at the same time because there’s no really good way to record that that I have found for doing recordings. The only way I could really see it working is getting into a studio or a recording room with him and you know pressing play on the background and saying sing with this and make it awesome and that wasn’t an option.
So saying here’s the song here’s how it goes. Here’s approximately what’s going to exist underneath it so that you’re not just you know, singing into the ether and hoping to stay in tune and then I’ll build the background after you which I tried to do millions of years ago with Karo also and did a different process so I thought I’d made it better but I had not.
Caro: I can’t imagine doing that! I was just thinking about that and I was like what do you mean you composed around the voice, like how?
Trace: I wrote the melody and the words were already there, they were in the script so that was thank you. That was easy, the word part was the best.
Deej: Well the word part was like, I wrote those just using like the very standard ballad format.
Trace: Yes.
Deej: And like made sure that it all sort of like scanned as a ballad.
Trace: And then wrote a melody for each of the songs and then got together with Tim and Deej and we just talked about you know, the style of the singing and and then like sang through them to make sure he was he was getting the idea, picking up the idea and then basically said go forth and record this. And I ask you one favor, my only favor is please don’t change the key in the middle. You can pick a key. If you don’t like my key you can change it but I’m not, pick one and stay there.
Deej: And how did that work?
Caro: That was great. There was one take where I think he was…
Deej: Yeah I was going to say…
Trace: Trying to do something new.
Deej: Yeah we had to, you know say we definitely can’t use that take.
Trace: It was like please please don’t pick that one but you can pick anything else because everything else was gorgeous. It was full of character and well sung and rock steady as far as the pitch went. And…
Caro: That moment of like, stop being creative just this once.
Trace: And then but yeah so so basically Caro what existed when he was singing it was just chords.
Caro; That’s wild.
Trace: That’s just like single strumming of it like strum the guitar here’s your chord here’s your melody go and then having to like figure out based on his singing what the pacing was going to be what the rhythm underneath was going to be when the chord changes were going to happen. If you were playing a lute slash guitar like instrument live along with yourself singing like how to make that sound like it was naturally happening at the same time. So there was an awful lot of playing around very similar to the foot stepping it’s a lot like if I move this like two milliseconds to the left.
Caro: Uh huh, uh huh. Yup. The number of times I would go in and manually remove individual foot step sounds to slow a pace down so that I wouldn’t mess with the actual quality of this. Oh my God. Or like add the tiniest bit of space. It was like taking tweezers to it. It was so funny. I’m kind of relieved I’m not the only one who was doing that.
Trace: The zoom function on the software got so much use.
Caro: Love the way I will zoom in until I’m at like hundred of a millisecond.
Deej: Well I mean Caro in so much that it was my fault too. Like I give so many notes back after mixes and I’m like can you slow this down just a little.
Caro: And it was funny because every now and then I’d be like alright cracking my knuckles, we’re zooming in baby let’s go! I actually loved the when I got your notes I love getting the notes because I was like oh it’s gonna take like five seconds. Um silly me. There were definitely times where I was like what? That doesn’t sound like a thing that needs to change and then I’d change it and I’m like oh yeah no they were right they were right.
Trace: Yeah no they give really good notes. I remember that.
Caro: Yeah! Yeah it was funny because there were a couple of notes I got where I was like is that gonna make that big a difference because I can’t hear it, I don’t know what but I was like alright okay. And then I’d listen to it and listen to the whole picture and go oh you definitely heard something I couldn’t hear and that’s really wild. It’s really cool.
Deej: Well that’s why we bounce things back and forth between each other.
Caro: We love collaboration.
Trace: You sold me back on my old viola because like we had we had talked about to start off the season and kind of differentiated a little bit from the original Monkey Tales like let’s rework the theme we’ll keep it the same piece of music but like let’s rework it and part of that for me was like, it’s been a while I have learned many things. Just about how the virtual instruments work and how I can you know make them sound like a little bit more the way I want them to. And I kind of started to wander into the directions of like the things I had learned and you were like where’d that old instrument go because I really liked it and it felt right and it’s gone now. So I had to go find it which was actually a bit of a bit of a thing because they don’t make it anymore.
Deej: I’ll always go that way.
Trace: And it was super worth it. I was a little annoyed at the time because I’d gotten rid of it partly because it doesn’t stay in tune but that was part of its charm. I just, I wasn’t feeling the charm until I got back to it and I went oh no I get it.
Deej: It is. Like by this point I have listened to that theme like hundreds if not thousands of times because I put all the final episodes together and stuff.
Trace: Right.
Deej: And it’s just like the sort of like warble of the viola is just like a beautiful part of it.
Trace: It’s just really slidey.
Deej: Yeah, well then you talk about it and see like how much that stuff reflects the world and how much that reflects the like sort of like artificial storytelling aspect of this universe.
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Deej: I have a compliment for you before as we move on to sort of half compliment half question from one of our listeners. The audio quality of Waiting for October is astounding. Astounding in quotation marks. What are some of the guidelines for achieving such a rich and uniform sound. And we’ve talked about that stuff but if there’s anything you wanted to add to that.
Caro: I have a real hack answer for that. And it’s literally just save the same sound effects you’ve used a million times before and copy and paste and bloop them in. When you find something that works don’t delete it. Don’t change the number of times sound effects that you go like oh that worked and I was like when did I use that in that one episode and pulling up the old episode and just cutting and pasting certain bits that I had done before that we knew worked but you know finding little ways to tweak it very very very slightly so it doesn’t sound like exactly the same but it is the same. So I just I don’t know if that’s really a hack answer if that’s just the thing people do but it felt kind of hacky. I was like oh I’m so glad it sounds consistent there’s a reason for that.
Dej: No that’s fair. Like I remember for Moonbase when I was still doing the sound design I had a little folder with like 10 different Wilder’s arm effects that kept reusing.
Caro: I have Raven Wings saved in one spot. And I would just I would literally just cut it’s one long sound effect and I would just cut bits and pieces and splice them together in different ways to make it sound a little bit different every time. But it’s just the one thing that I was just messing around with.
Deej: All right, I’ve got a series of questions from Becca, one of our most constant fans here who actually keeps spreadsheets on our shows.
Caro: Ooh.
Trace: Already a fan of this person, spreadsheets are my jam.
Caro:I love a type A person. Let’s go!
Deej: What’s really funny is that when I was writing the final season for Moonbase, I actually took her spread, I asked her to give me her spreadsheet from the rest of the show, so I knew I wasn’t missing any open-ending questions or anything.
Trace: Oh, that’s cool.
Caro: Anything to tie up, because I knew that if there was something that hadn’t yet been tied up, she would have it in her spreadsheet.
Caro: God, I need that kind of fan. Help me out.
Deej:: But yeah, she asked, and this is a little bit different from what we talked about before, what were your favorite scenes to sound design or write music for? That’s different from what is most challenging.
Caro: Oh, man. I loved trying to figure out what on earth does it sound like when a scarecrow is doing sign language.
Deej: Yeah.
Caro: And that was really fun, because I got to kind of play around with different versions of that. And what I found were toy wooden blocks made the right sound. And I don’t know, I was having a little bit of a nostalgic like, oh, I used to play with these when I was little. And just creating that sound with little wooden blocks was really, really cool.
Deej: And it was funny, because it was like nothing like what I originally pictured in my head because when I designed them and when you look at the character art, I thought of them having more branchy hands, which would have sounded a lot different and I don’t think would have worked as well.
Caro: Yeah, I did try to do something like that. And yeah, it was a lot harder to convey because it ends up sounding like a fire cracklingI found.
Deej: Yeah.
Caro: And I was like, oh, that’s not, we don’t want Auncle Lantern to be burning, that’s a very different story. And yeah, it was like, uh oh, but yeah, I’ve really, really, really loved anything I got to do with Auncle Lantern, because it just, I don’t know, I felt like I was playing with locks again, like a little kid. It was fun. And I loved. It’s always fun to do anything that feels representative. And, you know, I think, yeah, that was really fun for me. I was like, oh, yeah, what does it sound like when someone who doesn’t have hands like I do is doing sign language? Like that’s really fun. And the idea of making it audible is also a wild choice. It’s really cool.
Deej: Yeah, I was going to mention that too, because you and I had already had like pretty significant discussions about the character because you did some consultation on that as well and so we had talked about how they were going to communicate. We talked about how Xavi was going to communicate in the water.
Caro: Yeah!
Deej: And so when you got to actually sound design those things, you had already been a part of like making me understand how they should work.
Caro: So Xavi was fun too, because I was like, oh, splishy splashy sign language. All right, let’s go. Yeah, I think anything I got to do with sign language was really fun. And that was I think it’s also just a cool, a cool little detail of the world that like, hey, a lot of different, you know, a lot of different folks in this world use sign language for different reasons. And yeah, that that part was fun. Like how do you make how does a scare code during sign language sound different from, splishy splashy sign language? And I just I just I loved the challenge of that. And I also I really enjoyed designing, doing Kaiju noises was fun. And, you know, at a distance like, oh, yeah, what does it sound like when you got like something kind of Godzilla stomping around out there?
Deej: I don’t know if it was the right choice or not when I decided to do the Kaiju voice with myself, but I was like, technically, it’s dialogue. So I’m going to at least give it a shot. And so they were done so long before you actually designed their scenes.
Caro: This is really fun. And yeah, trying to figure out the right kind of monster sounds and, you know, figuring out all the all the creatures and the critters that are running around like the the… the Lindworm and whatnot. That was really fun. Because you know, it has to sound sort of familiar, but not.
Deej: Yeah.
Caro: And anything where I got to just be like, oh, there’s no rules. Awesome. That was really fun.
Deej: Yeah, I know Tina was a big fan of the billad noises, too.
Caro: Billdad is so cute. I really enjoyed the billdad. I thought I used a lot of guinea pig sounds for the bill.
Deej: Trace, did you have a favorite scene or favorite portion that you enjoyed?
Trace: I have two. The first one is the music underneath when they’re approaching the kaiju. And just because it was, I think, the furthest away, like I’m talking about pulling those threads out of the music and doing new things with them. And that was probably the the stretchiest thread, even more than the parade, because the parade kind of stuck to the theme. But just like, oh, how do we make like kind of danger adventure music out of this jaunty little tune? And also just getting to to make that big of a mood was very fun.
Caro: It’s your Jurassic Park moment.
Trace: It was. In fact, the song is loosely named Jurassic Kaiju.
Caro: That made me laugh so hard when I opened that.
Deej: Yeah, I love that.
Trace: But I think my real favorite one is the the episode with the ghosts.
Deej: I was going to say…
Caro: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!
Trace: And just because I think that was the moment Deej, if I’m right, where the floodgates on my whole story thing opened at you.
Deej: I think so. I think that too, I think that was one of the points where I hadn’t asked you for music, but you thought it needed to be there.
Trace: Yes, because I went, oh, I was reading the script and I had the list next to me of the things we had talked about. And I’m reading through and I’m going, oh, no, no, this, this is interesting. And even if you don’t use the music, I feel compelled to write something for here. And when I when I read through the rest of the screen, the scene and understood what was happening, I went, oh, and there’s all like 20 things kind of congealed in my head at the same time. And I went, I think I actually kind of get this world now in a new way.
And I understand how the music fits in the world, like not just the music for the episodes, but like how music itself would exist in this world. And I need to do that. I was like, I’m going to write this and you can do with it whatever you want, but it’s happening. And then let me write six paragraphs about why. And you went, OK.
Caro: Oh, man. Oh, I also loved anything with the Enoch.
Deej: Yeah.
Caro: Like anything there was fun designing like, oh, the sounds of people having fun inside and also like jumps getting jump scared by myself because I forgot I was in that episode. I was like, oh, my God, that’s me!
Deej: But yeah, jumping back to the music for for just a second, we had early discussions too about the way that music was going to connect with the storytelling aspect of this world. And I wanted those places where we do use music for it for the audience to not be sure whether that’s really there, whether it’s different from like scoring, like you would regularly score a TV show or a movie where the music is actually like whatever they call it, diegetic or whatever.
Trace: Diegetic, yeah.
Deej: And there’s only one place in the show where I where I actually like cross like break the fourth wall on that. And when like, Karo is walking towards The Endling or something and she’s they’re like, where’s that music coming from?
Trace: But even then there is like a little moment for me of going, is that just because of the the breathing noises? Yeah. Like there’s music, but there’s also the Calliope happening at the same time.
Deej: Is there any specific inspiration you drew on for certain moments or atmospheres?
Caro: Well, OK, so with the atmospheres and what you’re saying there, I live on Appalachian that runs deep in my blood. And so I did pull a lot of sounds that to me felt familiar for certain scenes where I was like, oh, I know what this sounds like at night or I remember what this sounds like at night. Like, oh, yeah, I know what it sounds like on like a porch in the evening. And, you know, that is such a specific memory for me. There’s like kind of designing my childhood a little bit. And creating kind of any kind of environmental sound.
I always start with the atmosphere and then work back from there. And getting to sort of make like the field sounds and the country side, the lake side, making those sounds was really fun. Because those those soundscapes really I would just sort of sit and listen for a while and be like, oh, I should be doing more work and not just enjoying this atmosphere. But it did feel in a way really familiar and then getting to go in and kind of add these little elements that little magical bits. That was really fun. And yeah I don’t know. It was, it was just interesting to kind of realize like, oh, I’m actually just pulling from things that I remember from when I was a child, which feels appropriate for something that’s about stories.
Deej: Yeah, it touched a lot of that really resonated for me too, because I mean, I grew up in Western Pennsylvania and like in the country. But it’s pretty much this. Let me in the same. Like, yeah, yeah, we’re technically just like very North Appalachian.
Caro: Well, yeah, you know, and and yes, it’s a lot of the same kind of it’s a lot of similar elements and it’s probably a lot of similar like, oh, yeah, I know what, you know, like cicadas, for instance, that alone. And I was like, how many times can I use cicadas in this show before we all lose our minds? Let’s find out. Things like that. And the particular way that the crickets creep in at night or the frogs or whatever it is. And, you know, breezes in a flat country sound different than breezes in the mountains and trying to figure out how to make that sound so that A, I can hear it and actually design it and then to create it in a way that kind of translates to what you’re trying to do. That was really fun and making and then how does it sound different? How does the breeze sound different in this world than it ours? And because there’s going to be changes, the plants are different and what it’s touching is different and the things that it hits against are different. I don’t know. It was that part was just really cool to get to dive into.
Deej: Trace, did you have any specific inspirations for things?
Trace: So the original theme inspiration is probably the strongest one, which it turns out is my dim memory of the theme music for the old Alfred Hitchcock Presents show, which I used to watch weekly when I was a child and which we talked about, I think, in our first conversation about the show.
Deej: And yeah, that was one of the things that I originally mentioned, too.
Trace: Yeah. And I hadn’t heard that music in, I’m going to say, like 30 years. So I was just kind of remembering what I felt like it sounded like and what it felt like in my head when I listened to it. And my memory was probably about half right. But I went with that because it was kind of like, no, it evokes the right feeling, even if the style isn’t actually what I thought it was. And then kind of trying to walk that very fine line between 12 musicians in a field, just doing a thing and an orchestra and figuring out, like when are we a little bit more full and when are we a little bit more folk? And relying on you to pull me back in whichever direction I needed to go, which happened several times. And I think the only one that I really, I did listen to quite a lot of drumline before dealing with the parade.
And because it’s a world that I’ve never really spent a lot of time in. My marching band didn’t march. So I never got to have that experience. We were a sitting band that did one parade and got lost in the woods.
Caro: Wait, hold up.
Trace: Smokey the Bear led us wrong and went left when we should have gone right. And we ended up in the middle of the woods. And it was actually….
Caro: Smokey! Only you can prevent lost children.
Trace: Well, we didn’t do very many parades after that ‘cause you know…
Deej: I can imagine.
Caro: So there was, I listened to that for reference. I did listen to a little bit of John Williams before I did Jurassic Kaiju. But mostly it was, it was trying to like to stay true to the way that that Hitchcock music had made me feel like it sounded, even if it wasn’t how it actually sounded.
Deej: Yeah. I think if I had to pick like one scene where I really think that the music transformed things in a way that I hadn’t expected, it’s the… Well, again, the episode I was just listening to, but like Caro and Xavi going down into the water.
Trace: I haven’t gotten to listen to the final episode yet.
Deej: The Karo monologue for that just…
Caro: That music.
Deej: The way Robin read it is just beautiful, but then just the music. Just like… gave it, not to not not to be punny, but gave it depths that I didn’t expect.
Caro: It’s beautiful. I loved that music. Oh my gosh. I maybe took a little too long designing it because I was listening to the music. It was so pretty.
Trace: I think that was one of the first things I sent you. I think when we were doing sketching and I was like, I was like through that in your direction, I’m like, I have no idea what this is, but it’s cool and we’re going to use it.
Caro: Beautiful.
Trace: But I still, yeah, I need to go back and listen. I haven’t gotten a chance with that episode yet. So I can’t wait to hear it though, because I loved,I loved the in-process versions I got to hear.
Deej: It is the best. Because I’m in it.
Trace: Well, yeah.
Caro: That’s true.
Deej: Becca did have one other question and it’s not really sound involved, but she had it anyway. Who from October would you most want to meet?
Caro: Oooh, oh no.
Trace: I’m going to go first because it’s The Endling.
Caro: Oh that would be fun.
Trace: Because again, I’m going to unload about my thoughts about story and find out like, you know, how that jives.
Caro: Okay, you do that. I’m going to go hang out with Grey just because he’s fun.
Trace: Cool.
Caro: I would love a fun little gay werewolf friend. That sounds great.
Deej: I think Grey is just about everyone’s favorite at this point.
Caro: Oh, that’s delightful.
Deej: That was mostly the decision in our producer chat as well that everybody wants to spend time with Grey. And I think a lot of it is just because Dallas is so great.
Caro: Yeah. I was like, oh, I’m going to be besties with Grey. He’s fun.
Trace: I say Grey is awesome, but give me cryptic story.
Deej: But you’re not getting answers, you know, from like…
Trace: I don’t need answers. I just need conversation.
Caro: That’s true.: I actually, it’s tough between Grey or Enoch just because I’m like, oh, I just want to listen to Enoch talk all day long. I was like, I could listen to him read the phone book. It’s so cute. I’m just like, oh, you sound like so many of my relatives. I feel safe.
Deej: I was talking about in the producer chat how that was one of the hardest parts to write because I spent like weeks like researching Appalachian language and trying to make sure that all the phrasing worked and everything. And one of the things that I found was a whole YouTube channel that was interviews with old African American men in the Appalachians and that gave David so much to work from as far as…
Caro: That’s very cool. Yeah. He just, he sounds, it’s, there’s a familiarity there and it worked really, really well. And I was just like, oh, I know exactly the vibe we’re going for. I could see him. I could imagine him. I can see his body language. Like, yeah, he’s delightful. But I mean, it’s David.
Deej: Yeah, exactly.
Caro: Talk about a warm hug voice. My goodness.
Caro: And Becca also had a compliment for both of you who said, I have absolutely loved both the music and sound design for Waiting for October. Thank you, Trace and Caro, for the fantastic work in bringing the world and story to life.
Caro: Oh my God. Thank you. That’s so sweet, aww.
Trace:It was super fun to do.
Caro: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, I’m like beet red right now.
Trace: Yep. Big smiles.
Deej: Those were all the big audio questions. I had a couple of just sort of big picture show questions that I asked at the end of the producer chat as well that I wanted to throw at you.
First of all, I just wanted to talk about, and this just came, well all three of these questions came from me, but this came from me because. I loved Moonbase and I loved everything we managed with it, but this show just feels like so much more personally intimate and special to me. And I know that like Tina and Robin and Sarah are other co-producer feel like that as well. I just wanted to see what makes this show special to you. Like you don’t have to feel the same way we do about it.
Trace: No pressure.
Caro: I think I really like. I like the balance of it. It sounds simple on its head. It’s, you know, oh, this couple and they’re kind of working through some of their stuff together while they’re doing this big grand thing and going on these massive adventures. And I think that the fact that the show could go from these really kind of grand scenes with a lot going on and fantasy and mystery, and then it can become this really like intimate domestic thing. And it doesn’t feel, it feels right. It feels like, yeah, of course they’re going to have this conversation now. And, and they’re going to, they’re going to talk over this in terms of, so how does this whole other world thing affect our relationship? And like, this kind of affects my job a little bit. Like, how do we, how do we do this?
Because it is an extraordinary thing. Most couples are not sorting through this exact problem. Most couples are not necessary to my knowledge anyway, are not necessarily hopping worlds all that often. But at the same time, yeah, they are because you’re always going to go through big, difficult things to, if you choose to live your life with another person, there’s going to be big stuff that is hard to navigate and maybe one person kind of knows what they’re doing. The other is like, this is brand new territory. I don’t know how to, how does this work? But I’m going to do my best to be supportive.
And I just, I think the balance was there. And that was really interesting. Cause I also write and I also, you know, I, I’m always looking for how, how do other people do these kinds of scenes? How are you using this relationship to convey XYZ within the grand story? And that part was really, really fun. Just to kind of witness while I was, I was working on the show to get to be like, oh my gosh, how are they going to have this? Where’s this conversation going to lead? How are they going to deal with this? Oh, all these revelations that are coming out. You know, how are, how is that going to affect these two characters who I really care about their relationship. They’re so cute and they’re so sweet. And I like, I want them to be okay. And I don’t know, it was just cool because I think it was interesting to, to get to use things like monsters and stories and the unknown to develop a relationship.
Trace: Did you have?
Caro: I do. I get, I get stuck sometimes at the beginning so bear with me. There are two things for me. And one of them is about the process of working on the show and one of them is about the show itself. The, the process line is just, this is probably one of the most collaborative things I’ve gotten to do in a long time and just getting to, getting to be part of like putting this together with, with the two of you, especially because we’re the, you’re the ones I’ve got to do that with the most has been just really fun and kind of an anchor during a time when I’ve been kind of trying to figure out my entire world. But for the story, and I, I know I said this somewhere, but I may have just typed it at some point. Most of the time when you end up in a fantasy story or a fiction story, you’re, you’re in this world and everyone has always been in this world.
So, and I’ll contrast it to Moonbase because it works this way. Everybody in Moonbase had, you know, grown up in that world and knew the political situation to some extent and knew the state of the world and wasn’t surprised by some of the machinations that were going on because they’d been going on forever. And they knew who all the players were and who they could trust and who they couldn’t to some extent. And obviously part of storytelling is, is like shifting that and flipping it on its head once in a while. But, with this world, we got to meet the world through the eyes of someone who like us had not been there before and, getting to, uh, to ease in slowly and have somebody else ask all the questions that we might be asking was very gentle. And it lets you kind of walk into the world, look around and go, what the heck is going on and not feel lost because there’s at least one other person who is a main character who is also wondering what the heck is going on.
Caro: Yeah.
Trace: And that made it so much cooler when you start to understand and you start to like see some of the other layers underneath the, ooh, look, shiny. What’s that that just went that way? Is that a unicorn? Because your level of comfort adjusted with her level of comfort and it lays it just, it just felt so gentle and it makes getting to know the world feel very natural and that’s an unusual, unusual storytelling type thing. And, especially for something that, that feels like underneath it, there are some big deal epic things happening.
Deej: Yeah, it’s definitely a lot different from like how we got into the story for Moonbase where we like jump in mid catastrophe.
Trace: Yep. Whereas this is like, hey, welcome to the neighborhood. And here’s my friendly neighbor and my slightly weirder neighbor. And don’t talk to that one over there because he’s just annoying. Looking at you Raven.
Caro: Damn Raven. He’s so funny. I think doing that without it sounding like, and now we do exposition! is like, that’s a, that’s a challenge. Cause I am, I am the reigning to Evan Tess Murray, who’s always reading everything that I ever write. I always say nothing that I write is finished until he’s looked at it. Because he will, he will go through and go like, so that’s exposition to the point that it’s excruciating. Can we do something about that? So I know firsthand how hard it is to not be like do do do do exposition time! You know?
Trace: Yeah and you know I never felt that way here.
Caro: Exactly. Every time I was like, damn, I gotta, I gotta take some notes.
Deej: That was the other hardest part of the season to write. The hardest parts were Enoch’s monologue and the Raven monologue. Cause they both took just like huge amounts of research. I mean, like with, with the Raven, it was trying to make sure everything like actually worked with like Poe’s actual like life and details and like working in a bunch of, a bunch of lines of poetry and references to his stuff. And then with Enoch, of course, it’s like trying to get the language right and trying to, but both places, like you’re telling a character’s entire back story in the monologue.
Trace: But then you get to do like say, and Poe’s back on his bullshit again so…
Caro: When is he not?
Trace: I remember reading that and immediately messaging you and being like, did you really just? Okay.
Caro: The Raven was so fun to play with. Every time I was like, oh, let me bust out the wings. Let’s go. The full guy is back.
Deej: It was just, it was, I knew, because I met, talked about this already in the producer’s chat as well, but just like having worked with Leeman, pretty much my entire professional career. Like I knew he could be so different from what people will know him from in Moonbase.
Trace: I do wonder if he ever did watch The Last Unicorn.
Deej: Oh, I’m sure he has.
Trace: I did mention to him the whole, but as soon as I heard Raven, I thought of the skeleton in The Last Unicorn.
Caro: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
Trace: Did you go there?
Caro: I didn’t but now I am. Wow. Yep. That guy.
Trace: And gives me the same unsettled kind of want to like this character in this person, but I, I, I’m a little creeped out feeling.
Caro: I like you, but I don’t want to hang out with you in real life. You’re fun to observe, but do it over there.
Deej: All right. Final real question. And again, you can ignore this if you want to, but it was, but it’s fun to see what people think. So we’ve been through, we’ve spent like the last what, like six to eight months in like soaking in this story. What do you think is going to come next? If you had to guess.
Trace: Gosh.
Caro: Oh my gosh. That’s, see, I keep wondering, but I just, I know I’m not going to guess right.
Deej: I’m not going to tell you. So you don’t have to worry about it.
Caro I know. It’s, it’s funny because like every time I was, I would get to the end of a script. I’d be like, well, now what the heck? I, I feel like I don’t really have any guesses so much as I’m, I’m just looking forward to who else are we going to meet? Like who else from who we kind of know from our world? Sorta what other stories are we going to come across? We’re like, no, wait, is that that guy? Oh my gosh, is she from such and such? Are they, but you know, um, that part for me was so fun throughout this, be like, what do you mean that’s Mothman, you know, like that was really fun. And so I think I’m, I’m like, what other, what other stories that I kind of know am I going to get a whole new version of? And, and so I have to assume we’re going to get at least a few more of them.
Trace: So I am definitely wondering what’s up with the moon.
Caro: What the heck is with the moon? What is that about? That was a wild thing to try and sound design. The moon doing the thing the moon is doing. Yes. Let me come up with a sound for that.
Trace: And, and the sound, this is, this is actually more of a note than the Deej don’t, but it is the, and now the sound does a thing.
Caro: Oh, the sound design notes, y’all, who, if you haven’t read the scripts or the transcript, I don’t know if those notes stayed in as written, but oh, I hope they did. Cause some of them are really funny.
Trace: I also, so I, I feel like one of the obvious things is that, Yvonne has to figure out how to balance the two worlds. But I kind of wonder if there’s going to be a thing where Karo does this, something along the lines of, well, I’m back and I still don’t know who I am or why I am. And it doesn’t matter. Maybe I can try on some different things and figure out a few different people to be and see what feels good and just like experimenting with, uh, I, I’m going to parallel for a second. I came home to my family as a 31 year old. And when I, when I, when I moved back in, I was a very different person and I got to kind of decide what that meant. And I feel like there’s a little bit of that coming for Karo where it’s like, oh, I have all these roots and I have this, this history. And obviously there’s some stuff because people keep being all vague at me. But, but at the same time, I get to, I get to decide what some of that means. And I’m excited to see what that looks like.
Caro: I feel like that is something that, you know, in this conversation, we’ve got three people of, you know, varying non binary gender identities and what not. It’s like, oh, yeah, this is familiar. Yeah. I’ve had this experience a little bit, not in a monster way, but certainly in a, you know, a gender slash queerness kind of way. And, and that’s absolutely something I’m looking forward to seeing more of kind of like figuring out your identity and how much of where, what you are told you are or what you understand that people view you as versus what you feel like versus what you decide to be and choose to be and how you decide to present yourself and whatnot. That’s going to be really fun to, to see where that goes. And how that affects their relationship.
Trace: And I think they both have some of that coming up.
Caro: Yeah!
Trace: Yeah. One from a place of like almost complete newness and one from a place of, well, fuck it.
Caro: Mm hmm. Yeah. Oh man, Deej, you’re killing us.
Deej: Without giving anything away to the audience, we had a conversation in the production channels, a month or two ago too, where I was starting to sit down and put my notes together for what comes next. And I asked you all, like what you feel like the themes are that we’ve been pulling out that we want to pursue and stuff like that. And I think Trace actually came up with like the answer, the answer that the rest of us were like, oh yeah, that’s what it is for sure. So that’s been in the front of, at the front of my mind too, as I…
Trace: I can do many things, making up mission statements is one of them.
Deej: So yeah, folks, we are definitely continuing to go on from here.
Caro: I’m so excited.
Deej: You both still have jobs if you want to put up with me.
Caro: Listen, if I don’t get to design more monsters, I’ll be sad. I’m getting good at it now.
Trace: Yeah!
Deej: Well, thank you both very much for having this little chat.
Caro: Thank you!
Trace: Thank you! This was fun
Deej: Anything you wanted to plug or explain to the audience that they should be paying attention to before we say goodbye?
Trace: Well, there’s this really cool show about monsters that, if you’re listening to this and you haven’t listened to it, I’m a little confused, but you should probably scroll back.
Caro: Yeah, you might want to go back. This is going to be a really confusing conversation.
No, I mean, I’ll always plug Seen And Not Heard, which is the show that I make and I’m voicing the main character in. And it’s about, it’s a little more slice of life. There’s no monsters in that one. It’s a little more true to our world, but it has to do also with a lot of things like identity and deafness and figuring out, you know, oh, hey, I have this thing about me that’s kind of new and I’m trying to figure out and what is my place in the world. So that kind of parallels a little bit of what we’ve talked about here. So if you like that kind of theme, you might like that show.
Trace: I guess the only other thing I have going on right now, that just just released just got done releasing is, Carmilla. And so if you’re, if you’re interested in vampires and some ancient sapphic romance and a truly immeasurable amount of really pretty and somewhat creepy music, then you can check out Carmilla.
Caro: I love that. I’ve plugged like the real world one and you’re plugging like the monster one you’re like, listen, we have something for everybody. You can branch from this show and you can absolutely find something.
Deej: Well, awesome. Well, thank you again. Everyone, thank you for listening. Thank you for sending in questions and saying nice things about the show and all of that wonderful stuff. Keep paying attention to the feed and keep an eye out because we will keep telling our stories. And up next maybe the moon?
Trace: So people watching the moon?
Deej: Um, no, we’re not going to say that. Okay.
Caro: Okay you can cut that.
Deej: That’s the wrong one. Thank you very much, folks. And goodbye.
Caro: Bye!
Trace: Bye!
